My camaro wont turn off after its started....???? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 23rd, 09, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

I am nearly 3 years into my camaro build and have converted the car from the original six cylinder/powerglide to a 454/TH400 as well as many other upgrades. Im finally ready to put the car back on the road and am finishing up a couple things in order to make it a decent driver as I finish the build.
Anyways, the car starts fine and runs good but won't shut off when you turn the key off. I had a Nova years ago with MSD ignition that did this and I had to run a diode in the alternator wire because I guess it was backfeeding power and keeping it running or something. But my car has stock HEI ignition.

Anyone know what I need to do in order to get the car to shut off normally?
When the car is running, with the ignition in the OFF position, and I unplug the alternator nothing changes. The car doesn't die and still runs like normal.......???

I finally figured out why the lights weren't working ...it was a bad headlight switch...go figure!
I'm sure I'll have other things to fix and questions to ask once I get the car driving.
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 04:14 AM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

When you ran power wire for the HEI, does it come off the BAT terminal on the fusebox?
If running an internal regulated alternator, the excitement wire should turn off with IGN, otherwise, the alt is still functioning, hence the engine still runs.

Additionally, pull fuses until it quits giving you an idea where power is coming from.

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 05:25 AM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Does the ignition key on the column work properly? You should have the following positions:
Key all the way clockwise ( START position) - you should feel a spring pushing the key back to RUN
Key should stay in RUN position and you should feel a detent as you try to rotate the key CCW.
Once in RUN position you should feel another detent as you rotate CCW to the OFF position.
Once in the OFF position you should not be able to rotate your key CCW to the OFF-LOCK position until you shift the transmission into PARK. (There is a lever on the lower end of the steering column that must be rotated to the full UP position in order for your steering column to allow your ignition key to rotate from OFF to OFF-LOCK.)
Lastly, you must push your ignition key in toward the column and continue rotating it CCW in order to reach ACCESSORY.

Jim
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 06:55 AM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Haha...you're funny Jim! My old girlfriend backed up my truck once and shut it off but couldn't figure out why the buzzer wouldn't shut off... she left it in drive!!! hahaha

I'd think after a 3 yr build the guy would know how to turn an engine off would'nt you!! hehe
Be sure that your hei supply wire is NOT on the same starter terminal as your alt. and battery. It's tough to see and decifer the 3 starter terminals.
You could just do a quick power check on your hei input with the key outa the ignition.
Shouldn't have power till you hit on position!

Had this toyota once...died on me. Had power to lights but not ignition. Took me hrs to figure out the problem. Turns out there a small secondary wire mouted off the battery (acc) was loose. It was also part of the ignition system! Talk about stupid... there was only two terminals on the starter!
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

I'm not running the stock external regulator, I have an internal regualted alternator.

I will try what you all advised as far as pulling fuses til it dies, finding out if the HEI wire is getting power and when in relation to the ignition position,.. etc.

The wire I had connected to the HEI was coming from the engine wiring harness to the distributor......I just went out and ran a wire straight from the IGNITION on the fuse panel to the HEI and nothing changed. The car still starts and runs and won't shut off.

I have a new ignition tumbler that I plan on installing this weekend. (Work has me busy til then)

Somehow the fuse panel is getting power to the HEI and ignition despite the position the ignition is in. Think this could be related to the wires that are going to the starter powering up the fuse box?

I'm confused. The engine wiring harness is brand new stock version. Im pretty sure if I removed the wires from the starter then it won't have any power to the fuse block at all. But somehow I have the wires mixed up or something is backwards. I dunno what else it could be.
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 09:43 PM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

got to check at fuse box power there all the time or not.some have power all time while some have power while only ignition is on.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 24th, 09, 10:50 PM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Quote:
Originally Posted by darthvegagt View Post

I'm confused.
So am I.
Quote:
The engine wiring harness is brand new stock version. Im pretty sure if I removed the wires from the starter then it won't have any power to the fuse block at all. But somehow I have the wires mixed up or something is backwards. I dunno what else it could be.
With original style 69 harness there are only three wires on the starter, one on each post. The one on the "B" terminal is useless to you, it supplies full 12 volts to point style ignition when cranking. (not used with HEI). The main body feed comes off the battery thru a junction block connector on the radiator support.

What wire in this harness did you use for the distributor? Original harness has a resistor wire suppling current to coil, also useless with HEI. We'll talk about how the alternator is wired when that becomes a problem.

Jeff
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

I cut the cloth resistor wire short next to the firewall, butt-connected a regular wire to it and ran it to the HEI.

Also the Im running a mini-starter on the BBC and it only has one terminal (vs two terminals on the stock silenoid) besides the battery cable connection.
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 05:44 PM
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Hay darth the wire for the HEI
I think you made a fusible link

Check out and see if you have power with the key off at the HEI
it might be your ignition switch
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

I'm at work and won't be able to test the wire til tomorrow. As stated earlier though I removed that wire and ran a completely different wire from the IGN side on the fuse block straight to the HEI and is does exactly the same thing as with the butt-connected wire.
I plan on installing the new ignition key switch tumbler in the car this weekend. you think I have a problem with the ignition switch thats on the lower part of the column by the brake pedal?
Im all ears for any troubleshooting techniques or ideas anyone has to light test wires and what should or should not have power ect.
Thanks to everyone who has posted and helped so far! I appreciate it.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 08:08 PM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Not familiar with aftermarket harnesses at all. When I worked on these there was no aftermarket wiring. My first thought is maybe the harness has a compatibility issue from the inside to the outside. The other thought is how have you wired the internal alternator. If it's one wire type I doubt that's an issue but if the external regulator has been bypassed to feed internal regulator alternator maybe that's it. Probe the wire that feeds the HEI with the key off and see if it's got battery on it all the time.

Jeff
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Well the factory engine wiring harness was all butchered up so i just bought a stock replacement engine wiring harness. As far as the stock external mounted regulator, I just unplugged the wires and removed it along with the horn relay, the wires are still there and uncut. Should i put the external regulator back on?

The alternator on the car takes the factory (two wire) plug and eye loop power wire. So its a 3-wire type alternator.

Its too bad one of you electrical guru's couldn't come over and diagnose it for me. It'd probably only take you guys ten minutes to figure out what is wrong with it. lol
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

ok maybe this is a dumb question but...is the junction block right behind the battery on the radiator support???

I was looking over the STARTER AND IGNITION WIRING DIAGRAM and it shows having a wire going from the positive side of the battery to the junction block. I know that I don't have a wire going to that if the junction block is what i stated above. All that I have connected to it is a wire at the end of the lighting wiring harness.

Can someone clear this up for me? Kinda curious if this is the problem I'm having with the lights.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:01 PM
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Junction block should have two wires on it - one from battery as you stated and another from horn relay buss bar, red wire. At horn relay buss bar, should have another wire from alternator BAT terminal and a wire from/to firewall connector to power the rest of the car.

The reg plug disconnected should have the two inside wires jumpered together and the two outside wores jumpered to each other. This action will excite alt and also turn on GEN light no alt running and turn GEN with alt running. This is if 3-wire internal reg'd alt is installed.

Ign switch at bottom of column may need adjusting with key off to kill ign system and other accessories. Lights should work with key off as power feed from firewall connector splits inside under dash - one lead to ign switch and other lead to headlight switch.

All of this post is if OE wiring is installed.

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old Mar 25th, 09, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: My camaro wont turn off after its started....????

Ok from what I'm reading and looking at in the ELECTRICAL BASICS section, the junction block is where I was thinking and connected to the radiator support. According to the wiring schematic, it shows a power wire going from the positive side of the battery to the junction block....as well as showing the charge wire of the Alternator going to the junction block. Also shows the Horn relay connecting power to the junction block.

If this is true then I need to change a few things with my car and see what happens. Cause "one" I removed the Horn Relay (wires just exposed), "two" don't have any wire connecting the +battery to the Junction block, and "three" the charge wire to the alternator isn't connected to the junction block either!

What do ya'll think, am I on the right track??? Is the alternator charge wire the eye loop wire? Sorry for my descriptions on things...trying to describe things the best I can....THANKS EVERYONE!

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