Voltage Regulator tech help - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 4 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 09, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Steve
 
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Question Voltage Regulator tech help

Gentlemen,
almost done with my simple 5 year project and you've been an outstanding source of knowledge. Today's issue:
I am to the finish wiring portion of detailing the engine bay. I have Billet Specialties serpentine conversion pulleys that are made for the alternator to "mid mount" on the passenger side. I plan on extending the leads from the driver side and re-wrapping the harness to make that happen, but then I started looking at my parts. I have a pile of alternators laying around from the years including a one-wire internal regulated one. If I use that what do I do with the white and dark blue wires (that normally go to the plastic plug in the back of the alternator) as I read the "one wire" is the red heavy power lead to the battery. Second, can I do away with the voltage regulator (not yet mounted on the radiator support) and if so what has to be done to the 4 wires going to it? Those are still original wires that are a bit "grungy" and I'd love to take them out but don't want any issues. The final part of the puzzle is I run an MSD 6-AL ignition box and if I remember way way back to last I drove the car, it came with a small diode to prevent self feeding the box and I couldn't turn it off. I believe that was installed on one of the voltage regulator wires??
Lots to read I know but as always I appreciate the help from the collective...
-

68 Camaro SS 396 Red on Red
current frame off resto, getting close
565 Dart BBC running on E-85
dyno video
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post #2 of 4 (permalink) Old Apr 18th, 09, 09:41 PM
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Re: Voltage Regulator tech help

A good resource for your project may be found in the tech reference series I on this site. https://www.camaros.net/techref/index.html Also search for 1-wire and 3-wire in the electrical forum and see what you find.

I personally prefer the CS style alternators because of their ball bearings, high output, and smaller body. There is an article in the electrical stickies that I wrote showing / exlaining how to make use of a 3-wire alternator setup, whould could also apply to the SI series is popular too. https://www.camaros.net/techref/electrical/dnult_alt/ Just beware of the impact on the Ampmeter if you have one in the car.

In short, you can eliminate the voltage regulator and some of the wiring. 3-wire (or 5-wire with two unused) internally regulated alternators will preserve the GEN lamp function plus give you the option of remote voltage sensing. The dnult_alt link above may give you some ideas on how remote sensing can provide more power for electric fans, headlamps, and other heavy consumers.

You might even search for American Autowire who provides come wiring improvements for you in a plug-and-play fasion.

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #3 of 4 (permalink) Old Apr 20th, 09, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Voltage Regulator tech help

Quote:
Originally Posted by dnult View Post
A good resource for your project may be found in the tech reference series I on this site. https://www.camaros.net/techref/index.html Also search for 1-wire and 3-wire in the electrical forum and see what you find.

I personally prefer the CS style alternators because of their ball bearings, high output, and smaller body. There is an article in the electrical stickies that I wrote showing / exlaining how to make use of a 3-wire alternator setup, whould could also apply to the SI series is popular too. https://www.camaros.net/techref/electrical/dnult_alt/ Just beware of the impact on the Ampmeter if you have one in the car.

In short, you can eliminate the voltage regulator and some of the wiring. 3-wire (or 5-wire with two unused) internally regulated alternators will preserve the GEN lamp function plus give you the option of remote voltage sensing. The dnult_alt link above may give you some ideas on how remote sensing can provide more power for electric fans, headlamps, and other heavy consumers.

You might even search for American Autowire who provides come wiring improvements for you in a plug-and-play fasion.
Dave,
I read through most all your sticky posts and have a much better understanding of the electrical system (thanks). I definately will be removing the voltage regulator(VR).
Some follow up questions for you (or others)
When I installed my MSD 6AL CD box, I had to install a diode on the brown wire at the VR to prevent the voltage backfeeding the circuit. In reading yours and Wes's posts I would connect the blue wire (VR to alternator) to the brown (VR to gen light) when removing the VR. To keep things simple (don't have time at the present to switch to your explained Remote sensing wiring) can that diode just be soldered inbetween the blue and brown wires? I read the white and orange are simply capped off, easy enough there. I have several alternators at my disposal and think it would be easiest to keep with a 3 wire setup. I noticed your particular favorite the CS130 and the custom bracketry to make it live. I am about to install a Billet Specialties serpentine pulley/bracket kit and don't know if you or any of the others would care to guess as to the compatibility to the CS130? Since you had to make a back brace I am assuming that the OEM alternator brackets didn't work out. I would also assume that the Billet Specialty kit, since it calls out for specific applications, is engineered to replace the OEM equipment. I don't want to go hacking on expensive billet bracketry is what I'm getting at.

I don't have much electrical load (no radio, A/C, still have T3 headlamps) but will be adding an electrical fan. What would you suggest to install the fan? A whole new circuit pulled off the fuse block and activated with it's temp sensor?

Lastly, is it "acceptable" to use the blade style fuses in the fusible links? My originals are a bit tired looking and since I will be altering the VR and moving the alternator to the passenger side and therefore having to lengthen those wires to reach, would like them to look spiffy and new.

It late so sorry for all the run ons here. Thanks!

68 Camaro SS 396 Red on Red
current frame off resto, getting close
565 Dart BBC running on E-85
dyno video
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post #4 of 4 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 09, 06:13 PM
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Re: Voltage Regulator tech help

You can purchase new fusable link wire if you like. You can use fuses.

You might be surprised by the fit of a CS130 with your surpentine system. It might bolt right up. The original 67 / 68 alternator mounting was slightly weird. The OEM heads didn't have holes in the front so that bracket in the tech reference was invented later, but happens to line up with the short waterpump setup. With your aftermarket bracket, hopefully everything will plug and play for you. Long vs. Short water pump configuration is the only gotcha you need to comprehend - and it's not that big of a gotcha when you have ALL the brackets.

The CS-130 alternator (as do others) come in different "clock positions". The clock position refers to the location of the mounting tabs. If you got an alternator with the right orientation for your brackets, I suspect it'll work fine. You might want to call your bracket supplier for advice. On my 68 with a short water pump using the bracket in Wes' article, I used an 8' oclock orientation. I believe I may have separated the case and turned in though. I remember the part number was incredibly simple like 12345 or similar. I'll see if I can find it.

I won't bore you with remote sensing other than comparing it to a garden hose. Suppose you have really long garden hose and you can't get the pressure you need out of it. Remote sensing would be like a pressure sensor (a wire) that can open the faucet up more to give you the pressure you want at the end of the hose. Remote sensing compensates for resistance losses between the alternator and the battery.

I would probably advise you to start simple and do the wire shorting technique described in Wes' article if you use an internally regulated alternator. (I personally haven't done it so I can't confirm the wire colors -- I'd just trust the article since many guys have used it). It's something you can do in less than an hour and verify that it works as expected. You can always switch it later.

If you do adopt an SI or CS style alternator, up-size the wire between the alternator and the horn relay (or battery junction if you decide to to the remote sensing thing).

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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