battery relocation? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 18th, 09, 11:26 PM Thread Starter
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wayne
 
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battery relocation?

i just relocated my battery to the trunk of the 68 camaro. I used a kit from local race shop. it came with cables (2g), battery tray, battery holder. I ran the power cable all the way to the starter. i ran a 4g wire from alt to starter. i have one ground (2g) from radiator support to frame, one (8g) from block to firewall, one (2g) from firewall to frame, and one from battery to sheetmetal in trunk. then i tried a groung from battery to another locations.

heres the problem im have i cant get a good ground from battery. i tried three different spots. i sand areas down to metal. i checked the battery if i touch a wire from battery + to battery - ther spark. i checked fuse box. what could be my problem? do i have to run ground all the way back to frame? i dont even get a click. there is no power.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 09, 07:32 AM
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Re: battery relocation?

Do you have grounding straps from your subframe to motor/firewall?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 09, 07:43 AM
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Re: battery relocation?

If you have tried Rick's suggestion and it still doesn't work, you might run a ground from the block to battery.

Also, 2 AWG is light gauge for the length of run(s) for the current requested. Min gauge would be 2/0 AWG. You should solder the lugs onto the wire.

If running at the track, you may have to install a battery cutout switch and same switch will have to kill the electrical system as alternator feeds the system and battery is a parallel circuit among the other circuits.

If you have a mechanical volt regulator, you can increase charge voltage at the battery by increasing the the spring tension to the coil inside the V/R.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 09, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: battery relocation?

I have 2wg ground from firewall to sub frame. does the other ground from block have to go to subframe? will it be good ground from back of head to firewall?

With 2wg i should still have power right?
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 09, 10:03 AM
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Re: battery relocation?

I ust put a Taylor battery relocation box in my 68, that kit comes with 0 gauge welder wire.

I ran the battery power to a firewall bulk head and from there to the starter.

Run battery negative to rear frame. From the rear frame you can run another cable to the front subframe, or if you have subframe connectors then skip that connecting cable.

Ground strap from front sub frame to engine side motor mount. Radiator to frame ground.
The body should be grounded off the rear frame if done this way but you can always ground off the frame to the firewall inner fender support to ground the body.


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 19th, 09, 05:31 PM
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Re: battery relocation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne33 View Post
i have one ground (2g) from radiator support to frame, one (8g) from block to firewall, one (2g) from firewall to frame, and one from battery to sheetmetal in trunk. then i tried a groung from battery to another locations.

i checked the battery if i touch a wire from battery + to battery - ther spark.
It sounds like the only ground you have on your engine is one 8 gauge wire, no where near enough, try a 2 gauge.

And why are you surprised that when you short the battery from the + to - you get a spark?
That is a direct short, don't do that.

Try star washers on all connections along with cleaning and removing paint.

And depending on your situation, many have had problems using the body as a suitable ground path for the starter, you could try running a temporary ground from the engine to the battery.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 09, 08:45 PM
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Re: battery relocation?

The biggest current draw (amperage) will be the engines starter. If you look at how the factory wired things, they ran a dedicated power wire from the battery positive post directly to the starter solenoid. They then also then ran a dedicated ground wire from the battery to the engine block. These two big wires from the battery to the starter allow it to work properly. When you then move the battery to the trunk it makes sense to go up in wire size (larger gauge) for the power wire and it also makes sense to go up in wire size (larger gauge) with a dedicated ground wire. If the factory could have gotten by with using a wire from the battery negative terminal to the fender, firewall, frame, or whatever and then having it then tied to the engine block they probably would have done it but they chose a more direct path with dedicated (and correctly sized) wires from the battery to their biggest current drawing device. The starter.

It would be nice if like in a house we had 110 volts to deal with and lossing a few volts here or there would make no difference how a light bulb lit up or a fridge worked, but with just 12 volts or so to deal with in a car a few volts drop here or there can make or break things. Take a garbage disposal with 100 volts going to it and it probably works even though you have 110 volts at the breaker panel. If we loose 10 volts on a 12 volt based system, things do not work.

I've always promoted running a dedicated ground from a trunk mounted battery to the engine block and this is how it should be done. Yes there will be exceptions like having a fully welded in roll cage and having the battery negative cable going to the roll cage and then picking it back up in front with a cable from the cage to the engine block but this works in certain situations.

Here's basically how a trunk mounted battery should be wired:
Run a properly sized FUSED power wire off of the trunk mounted battery positive terminal to the starter solenoid.
Now run the same size wire from the trunk mounted batterys negative terminal to the engine block, starter mounting bolt, or to the transmission bell housing bolt.
To tie things grounded to the car body run a wire from either or both the battery negative post to the body of the vehicle or from the engine block to the body of the vehicle.
Sometimes body parts are painted off the car and tieing the battery ground to the body does not allow the headlights which are grounded to the radiator support to work properly. You could then add a properly sized wire from the radiator support to the engine or to the body of the car.

As far as grounding a frame most of the time it's not needed. The frame floats on rubber mounts to the body and radiator support and the engine and transmission are also on rubber mounts isolating it.

Jim

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 20th, 09, 09:32 PM
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Re: battery relocation?

Well sounds like everyone here knows allot about this. I have a battery in my trunk and a kill switch attached to it, not sure what type this is. All though if you don't connect it all right something might go wrong. Like one of my wires got really hot and metled and smoke was everywhere, it would have caught fire if i did not disconnect the battery right away.


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 09, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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Re: battery relocation?

so i came home today with good volt meter and checked to see if i had power and grounds. i found out my problem... now just need to know what wire fixes problem... ground are mor than fine.

i have no power going to fuse box, ignition, cab. which wire powers these? i know it is a wire that goes to bulkhead connector. i believe it may have went to horn relay. maybe?

thanks a head of time...
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 22nd, 09, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery relocation?

anyone know what wire this is or what color? is it a 10g red or a red/black 12g wire?
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 07:38 AM
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Re: battery relocation?

Red wire #10 AWg with a fusible link, #14 AWG, at the horn relay buss bar.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 09, 10:36 AM
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Re: battery relocation?

And like Jim said, use dedicated large cables to the starter. Many years ago I tried to use the subframe as part of the circuit. It worked,,,, for a while. Now I use two large cables, both directly to the starter. Of course there is also a trunk relay to kill power from the positive side of the battery whenever the key is off. And a external kill switch too. Now get this. Two months ago while racing, I was on the return road after a run. The engine craped out and died. Smoke came from under the hood. I ran to the rear of the car and killed the battery. I can't remember if the key was off. Anyway, the primary wires from the horn relay shorted to the radiator support. All were original. Cost to fix; $10.00. No other damage except original harness wrap. Thank you NHRA. (a cutoff switch is required with rear batteries)

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 25th, 09, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery relocation?

thanks for the help guy. i have restored power to the fuse box withthe exception of the battery tab... the ignition has power now. I tries to start car once again no luck from ignition. the inside lights are come on the dash when i turn key. i left the key in run position, took a screw driver and start the car at the starter. i checked the purple to see if it got hot when key is on. (Yes) i ran yellow wire just for argument. still car will not start from switch.. do you guys think i need new ignition switch? it work before engine swap..
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 25th, 09, 08:45 PM
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Re: battery relocation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne33 View Post
I checked the purple to see if it got hot when key is on. (Yes) I ran yellow wire just for argument. still car will not start from switch.. do you guys think I need new ignition switch? it work before engine swap..
Where on the purple wire did you show it got hot when the key was in the crank position ?.

If you have power on the purple at the starter then the starter solenoid should engage and the starter should crank over. If you don't have power on the purple at the starter but under the dash then you have a problem downstream possibly through a neutral safety switch or the bulkhead connector.

Jim

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 09, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: battery relocation?

I want to stay thank you to everyone who had input. and a special thanks to Jim. I know i asked the question 600 ways but i did get after days. i got the car started. it has one of the connections in neutral safety switch connections in factor connector which found its way loose.
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