Now I need starter help.... - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 09, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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John
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Now I need starter help....

I am getting rather tired of having to troubleshoot electrical issues but here's another one.

Tonight, I went for a short drive. Car started up perfectly and drove fantasticly. I stopped off to grab a coke at the gas station. When I went back to start my car the starter made a sound that was similar to the sound a starter makes when you try to start the car when it's already running. On the second turn of the key, it started up just fine.

It is now past 10pm here so I can't go turn it over to test in the garage, but on the way home I stopped a couple times andtested it and it continued to make this sound (and not turn over the engine but it sounds like the starter motor is turning.) The battery is brand new and fully charged.

What would be the best way to troubleshoot this?

Thank you guys.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 9th, 09, 09:18 PM
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Vic
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

i have this issue, and still kind of do.. my original thread over at lateral g might help you..

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=22798

my problems was my pinion not close enough the flywheel, but also may be a timing issue, your misfire causes the flywheel to hit back onto the pinion, making a loud grinding, as if you started your car while already idling...

otherwise, hope my thread works about..

goodluck

Vic
1969 Camaro SS
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

Thanks for the info. I don't know if it's the same issue that you're experiencing though. The starter has worked fine since I bought the car in April and only started acting funny after I tried to crank over the car when the battery was going bad.....

Now that I've replaced the battery, the starter is now making this noise...... I guess I could have damaged it.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 07:52 AM
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Scott
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

Do you have a starter brace on it? You should as it supports the nose and keeps the starter in alignment.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

Well I pulled the starter this morning and that grinding sound was my pinion completely grinding away at an angle at the end. Luckily the fly wheel looks ok...no missing teeth. I took the starter to a repair shop and they are going to replace the pinion. The previous owner didn't have any shims in place. It looks like the pinion only went about 1/3 the way onto the flywheel... does that sound right. Once I get it back tomorrow for the shop I will check the gaps between the flywheel and the pinion. I'm thinking that it might have been to tight a fit not allowing the pinion to fully extend.... -I'm just guessing though.

Last edited by johnnymac; Nov 10th, 09 at 01:11 PM.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 02:52 PM
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Fred
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

Starters are so much fun. You'll get it John. Sounds like you know what you're doing. As a morale boost, when I installed a new set of Super Comps a couple of years ago, the damn things hit my starter. I had to grind the block and the starter so as to rotate the motor on its base. The SC's are on the garage floor waiting for a new home and my new reproduction Super Scavengers are in.


One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

I wish I knew what I was doing.... lol. Until this morning, I didn't even know where the damn starter was. j/k :-) I just don't understand how the starter could be fine for a while, then all of a sudden have it's pinions teeth grind off. It doens't make sense. It looked like firgure 3 in this picture:




I will be picking up the rebuilt starter tomorrow and installing it. It is a "Tuff Stuff" starter and the guy a the performance shop down the road told me that they are not the best and might be made of a softer alloy. Perhaps my new pinion will be made of a harder material.

Anyone want to buy a Camaro? I'm serious.

Woohoo 100 posts!
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 03:36 PM
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Fred
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

Waaahooo! 4000.
Well John, you sure sounded like you knew what you were talking about. Day job??? Politician??

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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)
RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
TH400 (CX) with Coan 8" converter, GV-OD, 8 track still on console and best et 10.495,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
128.79mph 1.428 60'
All with 1960's stuff. (except tires and converter)
+ MT Super Scavenger headers & 3" full exhaust with X pipe. 3700 lbs. with me in it.
1000cfm AED and HD Harold-Lunati SR, 725 lift with shaft rockers too.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 10th, 09, 04:58 PM
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Pat
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

If the starter is not shimmed properly,every time you start it and its only getting a partial lock on the flywheel you slowly but surely wear off the teeth. Thats why yours had wear on part of the teeth. Eventually they will wear to the point where they cant get a good bite and the slip/grinding you heard will happen.I went to GM and bought a brand new mini GM super starter and it was expensive but I have never regretted it.Works great,spins the crap out of my 350 and no problems....no shimming either!! I am all for original equipment but some technology advances I just had to put on my car just because of the headcahes like you're having...PC
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 09, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

I got the starter back from the shop with the new pinion. THe car will start....for a the time being. The problem is that the pinion is too far away (horizontally) from the flywheel. From what I've read it should rest about 1/16 of an inch from the flywheel. Mine is more than 1/4 inch.... Right now, with the pinion fully extended, it only just catches the flywheel about a quarter inch or so...

I called Tuff Stuff and the tech is looking into it but he didn't sound too optimistic. Anyone have any ideas? I have a TK0-600 tranny and Motown 427 Small Block.

Last edited by johnnymac; Nov 11th, 09 at 11:29 AM.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 09, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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John
 
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 138
Re: Now I need starter help....

Problem solved by with the assistance of Broner Generator in St. Louis. As it turns out the mounting block was either missdrilled or Tuff Stuff blocks are just not compatible with my set up. Check out this picture. You can see that the mounting holes are not centered. This did not allow for the mounting block to sit flush with the bell housing. Check out that gap!!! (and keeping the pinion too far away from the flywheel.)

The solution.... I swapped out the Tuff Stuff mounting block with a Tilton block and voila... it matched up, sits flush with the housing and works like a charm..... till the next problem comes out of left field.

Thank you for all of your help again. I really appreciate it.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 11th, 09, 05:00 PM
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Fred
 
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Re: Now I need starter help....

John, we really appreciate hearing back from you.
A thought! Maybe the mounting block was designed to be reverse mounted. Oh well. Toss it in the recycle bin.

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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)
RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
TH400 (CX) with Coan 8" converter, GV-OD, 8 track still on console and best et 10.495,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
128.79mph 1.428 60'
All with 1960's stuff. (except tires and converter)
+ MT Super Scavenger headers & 3" full exhaust with X pipe. 3700 lbs. with me in it.
1000cfm AED and HD Harold-Lunati SR, 725 lift with shaft rockers too.
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