Tilton starter Dragging! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 09:42 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Tilton starter Dragging!

HI, The starter never gave me a problem till I redid my top end with heads, cam and intake. Now it spins good for a half turn and does a wierd drag then goes good then drags about every half a rotation . Not dead battery drag but a turning the motor o.k. drag. If thats even possible! I have an old Tilton nock off that works until it heat soaks (why the real Tillton) and it also did the half step drag too!
I brought my Die hard to sears in hopes of a bad bat. but everything checked good and it got a free charge. The batteries 550 cca could this be a prob?

Oh my motors a 400 .30 over, 230/230 @50 , Airgap and 650 AVS, Full MSD set up.
Timings at 10deg. Kinda played with the timing today after Sears see if it would help, no luck same thing.

Once I get it started after beating it to death it runs like a bat out of hell and get this the starter shakes the drag! No drag when the cars at running temp.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 10:25 PM
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Sean
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Have you checked out the flexplate (is it a flexplate?) when cranking? It sounds like the flexplate has a bunch of wobble or runout and the starter needs to be shimmed.
Shimming alone may fix it but it still sounds like there may be another issue.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

It has a fly wheel. All the teeth check out fine. I put the 2 shims that Tilton supplied with no changes. It seems to line up but I was going to Checkers tonight pick up a few more shims. The bummer is it never gave me a bad time shim wise till the top end swap.

My ground and power are new.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 10:47 PM
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Hmmm. Have you watched the flywheel when it turns?
After cranking does the starter main power wire feel hot? The strangest part is that it goes away after it warms up, thats odd.
Have you tried checking the depth of the starter in the flywheel, I have had good luck with the old paperclip depth gage trick, if you are not familiar with that you just manually engage the starter into the flywheel and if you can fit a large paper clip in between the two gears it should be good. It doesn't really sound like only a shimming issue, but that will tell you where you are with mesh at least.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

I know its crazy. My old set up always fired when cold and struggled to start when hot. Due to a burnt valve. Thats why I went all out on a top end swap. Ill check out the paper clip method while Im under there with my hand full of shims. The red wire is warm but I crank it for 20- 30 sec. some times.

Any Idea if the 550 cca is enough?

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 11:19 PM
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Sean
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Man I would think the battery is fine if it's fully charged and such. I use a powermaster starter and timing is locked out at 35* with about the sam eCCA I believ and it never so much as hiccups. The Tilton you have is a gear reduction starter right?

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 12th, 09, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Yes its a gear reduction. I didnt look at the flywheel while it spinning. What am I looking for?

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 09, 09:20 AM
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Sean
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Quote:
Originally Posted by spideynut View Post
Yes its a gear reduction. I didnt look at the flywheel while it spinning. What am I looking for?
A wobble or something. It just seems odd that the dragging comes and goes, but it may just be tight enough to drag and shimming will take care of it.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 09, 09:39 AM
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Pull all the plugs and try cranking it to see if it behaves the same. My thoughts are perhaps you have one cylinder that's dragging it down. Perhaps a rocker is adjusted too tight (high probability). Timing could be off a bit as well. Double check those rockers.

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 13th, 09, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

O.K. gang. I shimmed it up and down with no change. I did pull 4 plugs 2 on each side. and it spun quite freely. So what whould be that mean?

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 09, 07:52 AM
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

retard your timing a bit
after your top end redo your probly too far advanced
also make sure you got good battery cables
elcheapo cables have a small conductor and build alot of heat and resistance using a mini starter.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 09, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Well my dad and I talked it over last night trying to figure where to go next. We went down a check list of suggestions from here and what we already checked and we figured why is it turing over and not firing? So we said MSD? (new) carb(new) plugs (new) but the plugs have been soaking in fuel all these times ive been cranking away. So the next cheapest thing was to replace the plugs. Besides I was running all 8 accel shortys and I know how "gimmick" type things are they normaly dont hold up to the claim. Well they are short! Anyway 6 cheapo champions where I could fit them and she fired right up!!!
As for the starter drag its not doing it. Maybe it always sounded that way but I never noticed cause the car always started fast?? I just went out side again, its been sitting for 10mins. It turned over after 2 rotations before firing and no starter drag noise. Thanks again crew you guys have helped me more in the past 6 years than you may think. Aloha Brad

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 09, 11:35 PM
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

2 rotations are pretty good. Sounds like you found an ignition problem. Not sure if timing may also be working against you or not. Many of us have over advanced the timing creating a hard start condition.

You may already know this, but carberated cars have their own personality. The timing and carb setup vary greatly. Some like a single pump before you crank. Others like two. It depends on if the engine. BTW, if you suspect it may be flooding, hold it to the floor while cranking to clear the flood. Letting a flooded motor sit for a minute before cranking again also helps. If you don't talk sweet to them sometimes, they'll take their revenge -- especially when you're in a hurry.

Dave
========================
68 Coupe, 350 w/ Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, cam, intake, 700R4, Dave's small body HEI
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 09, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Dave, I actually have to hold it to the floor to get it started almost always. Ive been chasing gremlins for a long time. All sorts of things, years and lots of money have narrowed it down. I hope to really fine tune her now. Along with the top end I matched it up with a Aluminum 4core and a big fat fan 2800cfm. Should be able to handle the hot hawaiian days in traffic and cruises now

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Nov 19th, 09, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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Brad
 
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Re: Tilton starter Dragging!

Just for the record starters still dragging. I did have gas foul on the first set of plugs. So when I changed plugs it gave a false pos. on cuering the dragging. I bought an Optima batt. but didnt help.
Talked to Tilton today, they said never heard of it working when hot and dragging when cold. So I guess the next thing to do is send it in to Tilton for dyno. Not really what I want to do but theres no other option is there?

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