Running lights flashing with blinkers - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 09, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Running lights flashing with blinkers

Just dont understand what is doing it. This is all new painless wiring / new car build. I have the Marquez Design led blinkers and Spaghetti sequential tail light/ blinker leds. I have a seperate #6 ground under the dash and most of all the grounds go to it. The Marquez do ground to the radiator support but I check it with a Ohm meter and the ground is good. Also ran a seperate ground for testing and still had the problem.

Reason for the ground on the radiator support is because we have the fiberglass lower valance from Marquez also.

Alll wiring in the column is new. Also have the correct flashers installed for the tail lights.

The tail lights work fine. The blinkers are the ones with the problems. When you turn the left front blinker on the right front running light flashes with it and vise versa. So voltage is leaking to the running lights and I see it with the volt meter. Cant really measure it because it is to fast.

So to fix the problem I put diodes on each running lights. Now they work fine.

Any ideas what could be the problem. Just thought I would post this so if anyone has this problem.

Everett and Dnult,,you are always posting here. What is your opinion?

Mike
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Last edited by prostreet69camaro; Dec 21st, 09 at 09:56 AM.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 09, 09:20 AM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Ground feed back, Will cause all kind of problems.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 09, 02:46 PM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

X2 on the grounds. Try running a temporary ground from the battery (-) to various ground points like the marker lamps. See if the behavior changes. A freshly painted car body invites all sorts of ground problems. There should be a pig-tail lead from the battery (-) to the right fender. Measure the voltage between the battery (-) and a good ground on the body like an unpainted bolt. Turn on the lights / flashers /etc. and see if your meter reads anything. It might flicker a bit around 0.05V or less, but it should show anything higher. I've posted several times about using the voltage drop method to find bad ground and power connections. Search for "voltage drop" in the electrical forum and you'll find several posts explaining how it's done.

Is there any chance this new harness has been upgraded to flash the markers? Pretty need upgrade if so. If the marker lamps are dim, thats a sure sign of a grounding issue though.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 09, 04:51 PM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Agree with the suggestions given, grounds, or lack of a good ground, can induce problems.

I read the problem as with a turn signal selected, the opposite front side marker flashes as if a wiring problem. Marker lamps should have their own power source, generally from the headlamp switch, brown wire. Light blue wire for left t/signal, dark blue wire for right t/signal.

However, checking point-to-point voltage drop is good while having the lights on, both sides, ground to ground and power.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 09, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

I also thought it was a ground issue too. But I tried diferent places for grounds and all the way to the battery and still had the problem.

It does go thru the headlight switch and the colors are correct like Everett said. I also have a ground wire on the light switch to eliminate that. If I removed the brown wire from the light switch and ran direct power to the front running lights,,, the problem went away. If I had the wire terminated to the light switch it was there. I also tried 2 different new light switches.

Like I said I have them working now with the diode. Thanks for the replies.

Dnult
I never tried the voltage drop test. This kit for the sequencial tail lights has a specific electronic flasher for the blinkers and flashers. Each electronic flasher has a ground on them too.

Mike
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 09, 03:32 AM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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Originally Posted by prostreet69camaro View Post
If I removed the brown wire from the light switch and ran direct power to the front running lights,,, the problem went away. If I had the wire terminated to the light switch it was there. I also tried 2 different new light switches.
Brown wire also serves the tailights and rear side markers. Do the rear lights flicker, reduction of illumination, any amount in sequence with the flasher?

If you removed power from the light switch and supplied a separate power source and lights worked normal, then not enough current is being supplied. Too small of supply wire gauge?

If rear lights work fine during the selected sequence, and only the front lights are hosed, then maybe a bad crimp in the front harness somewhere. The brown wire serving the rear is directly from the switch and the front is crimped at the switch also, but it goes through the firewall.

JMT's Wonder how the lights work with normal bulbs?

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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 09, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Brown wire also serves the tailights and rear side markers. Do the rear lights flicker, reduction of illumination, any amount in sequence with the flasher?

If you removed power from the light switch and supplied a separate power source and lights worked normal, then not enough current is being supplied. Too small of supply wire gauge?

If rear lights work fine during the selected sequence, and only the front lights are hosed, then maybe a bad crimp in the front harness somewhere. The brown wire serving the rear is directly from the switch and the front is crimped at the switch also, but it goes through the firewall.

JMT's Wonder how the lights work with normal bulbs?
Everett,

I dont have any side marker lights. The front running lights and back lights are on 2 seperate terminals on the light switch.

The back lights are led and has a special flasher. I tried normal flasher and the blinkers would not work. Even says that in the instructions.

I also thought about the front lights being as they are led. If they were normal bulbs then there probably would not be a problem as led lights take less current to light and they light faster than regular bulbs. The normal bulb would be slower lighting and it might not flash with the blinker.

Mike
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 09, 11:33 AM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Well, since you state that they are LED's front and rear, that rules out my "simple fix" suggestion. I had a similar problem with my 67, and after poring through the wiring diagram, I finally figured out that I had the wrong light bulbs installed. I think I had 1156's (single element) instead of 1157's (dual element), which was causing a bleed over into the signal circuit. However, I did read somewhere that polarity is important with LED's, so if you have the pos and neg reversed, it will cause a problem. Good luck. Electrical problems are very aggravating.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 09, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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Originally Posted by RSSSfanatic View Post
Well, since you state that they are LED's front and rear, that rules out my "simple fix" suggestion. I had a similar problem with my 67, and after poring through the wiring diagram, I finally figured out that I had the wrong light bulbs installed. I think I had 1156's (single element) instead of 1157's (dual element), which was causing a bleed over into the signal circuit. However, I did read somewhere that polarity is important with LED's, so if you have the pos and neg reversed, it will cause a problem. Good luck. Electrical problems are very aggravating.
The Marquez Design front lights have only 2 wires. One wire for each led and one led is brighter than the other. I made the brighter led the blinker. The housing is the ground.

Mike
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 09, 08:52 AM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Mike,

Agree with the statement the LED's draw less current and with this feature, a different flasher is needed as OE, P/N 512, won't work as not enough current is drawn to 'trip' the flasher.

No side markers and your 'running lights' are the front parking lights and the rear LED set-up works fine on its own circuit. A

The oppposite running light, the parking light LED, losing some brightness when the opposite t/signal is selected, is indicating both parking lights dimming, you can't see the selected parking light because of the brighter t/signal LED is overruling in brightness.

I assume the front t/signals are connected with the rear flasher unit. You've found two fixes for the front problem - 1) separate power source why not jumper the front parking lights to the rear taillights? Yes, I know the headlamp switch does this, but still, a college try might reveal something; 2) insert a diode(s) - prevents feedback as in a check valve to fluid. Not an incorrect fix, but I read you would like for the system to work without them.

Is the power for the front t/signals from the same terminal/source as the front parking lights? You could always install a relay for parking light power using the parking light headlamp terminal as relay control and p/light source from the fuse panel.

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 09, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Mike,

Agree with the statement the LED's draw less current and with this feature, a different flasher is needed as OE, P/N 512, won't work as not enough current is drawn to 'trip' the flasher.

No side markers and your 'running lights' are the front parking lights and the rear LED set-up works fine on its own circuit. A

The oppposite running light, the parking light LED, losing some brightness when the opposite t/signal is selected, is indicating both parking lights dimming, you can't see the selected parking light because of the brighter t/signal LED is overruling in brightness.

I assume the front t/signals are connected with the rear flasher unit. You've found two fixes for the front problem - 1) separate power source why not jumper the front parking lights to the rear taillights? Yes, I know the headlamp switch does this, but still, a college try might reveal something; 2) insert a diode(s) - prevents feedback as in a check valve to fluid. Not an incorrect fix, but I read you would like for the system to work without them.

Is the power for the front t/signals from the same terminal/source as the front parking lights? You could always install a relay for parking light power using the parking light headlamp terminal as relay control and p/light source from the fuse panel.
Everett,

Thanks for the reply. Never thought about the same running light flashing and not seeing it. You are probably correct on that too. I have thought about a relay to power the front running lights. That would probably do the trick.

I dont mind the diodes in the circuit. Just want to make sure there will be no problems with using them. I am building the car for a friend. I live in Texas and he lives in Colorado.

Actually just trying to figure out why it is doing it for future reference since I do wire cars. This is the first time with the front and rear led lights. I have the same front lights in my car with factory harness and dont have any problems.

Thanks again

Mike
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 09, 09:37 PM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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Originally Posted by prostreet69camaro View Post
This is the first time with the front and rear led lights. I have the same front lights in my car with factory harness and dont have any problems. Thanks again
You're welcome. but what is different between your car and his?

If yours runs correct and his does not, what is the difference?

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 09, 02:45 AM
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

Its a whole different world from wiring 12 volts to house current.My buddy laughs at me because I have trouble with the concept in comparison to house current.Relays realy get me confused at some points.How much more is left on your buddies car?Should be getting close do you still have a thread going on it.

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 09, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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You're welcome. but what is different between your car and his?

If yours runs correct and his does not, what is the difference?
My car doesnt have the rear sequential tail lights ( led ) and uses the factory flasher.

This car has a painless wiring harness but that should not matter.

Plus mine is purple and his is black/red. lol

Mike
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 24th, 09, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Running lights flashing with blinkers

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Originally Posted by Pro-Street69Camaro468 View Post
Its a whole different world from wiring 12 volts to house current.My buddy laughs at me because I have trouble with the concept in comparison to house current.Relays realy get me confused at some points.How much more is left on your buddies car?Should be getting close do you still have a thread going on it.

I havent posted any pictures lately. Just now got it back to the paint shop to paint all the parts that were stolen that was in my enclosed trailer. That put me back about 4 months.

We should have it running in Janurary and ready for the interior shop by March. Then start driving it. Plan on going to Cruisin the Coast in Mississippi in October.

Mike
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