67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 10, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lake Mathews, CA
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67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Gentlemen: I know this topic has been written about till its blue in the face, however I still do not seem to be finding the answer.
Problem: Doors will not close...

I am a semi-literate schematic reader, I have rewired the entire system ( exception being the wires in the loom from left to right in the core support ). all of the switches have been replaced, replaced the relays, checked the diode. etc.. I followed the troubleshooting process onliine, checking for voltage downstream from relay 1 etc.. what I really need is someone who understands the flow of electricity in this thing who can walk me through an isolation procedure. I am used to isolating out bad parts, but without really knowing how the current flows and where to access the isolation points, I am at a total loss. And whoever decided to make the schematic (color coded by wire without contact data had no desire to help anyone but the true electrical engineer, arrgghh )

1) I cannot understand why the 2 connector port on relay 2 has voltage on BOTH contacts?? is that not what activates the relay? I was thinking one should have voltage to activate the realy and the other should be ground, voltage drops, the relay opens?? The TS guide says replace relay 2 in that instance, did that, got nothing??

What I want to do is put voltage to the motor and see if it in fact operates to close the doors, then work back thru the relays to find where the circuit is malfunctioning.

Any takers, i am not one to go to a shop and pay $90/hr for someone else to review my entire re-wire ( will take them 2 hrs minimum to follow it thru and confirm it is correct and I have better things to do with $200 bucks )

the system had numerous faults, shorts, crosses, grounds, wired to headlights, stray wires to nowhere... the monkey they had working on this before obviously had electrical experience but not enough to pull the wiring diagram out, ( they did work when I bought the car 3 months ago ).

I would also like to understand how the relays get current to the motor when the light switch is pushed in, Does the brown wire from the diode go hot when the switch is pushed in?

any takers on this one, I am having fun fixing this and a little frustrated, but I am not giving up...
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 10, 04:02 PM
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Adam
 
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Posts: 127
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67 RS style View Post
I would also like to understand how the relays get current to the motor when the light switch is pushed in, Does the brown wire from the diode go hot when the switch is pushed in?
I'll try to get back to you later tonight, but here are a couple quick items to point out. Yes, the brown wire should have 12v with the headlight switch in or out but only if the ignition is in the "on" position. This is what powers the relays for the "close" operation.

Also, the system won't close without the headlights in and attached to the wire harness as they provide the path to ground for the relays in the "close" operation (they provide the ground path to complete the circuit of the power coming from the ignition switch on the brown wire. Make sure your high beam switch is in and working.

Its kind of a weird system based on todays component availability, but if you think like you lived in 67 it sorts clears up :-)

I'll get back to you after I review a couple more items that I discovered on mine when I recently had lots of trouble.

Thanks,
-Adam

My Current Baby:
1967 Camaro RS orig. 327 w/powerglide
deluxe bench front seat Int. w/ power windows,
factory A/C, factory four piston disc brakes,
454 Big Block currently w/TH400

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 10, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

ok, the headlight being in is a good suggestion, the drivers side is out, ( but only recently ) I will re-install that, now am I reading the schematic correctly that the light blue wire thru the dash and the headlight switch and the dimmer switch is the path to ground? the Monkey working on this before had a wire going from the headlight plug to the relays ( I think relay #1 ) but I cut it out because I did not see it in the diagram? should I put that back?
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 11th, 10, 10:36 PM
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Adam
 
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Posts: 127
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Yeah when the headlight switch is in the off position the light blue wire is path to ground through the light bulbs themselves, when the switch is in the on position the light blue wire is energized and provides no ground so relays 2 and 3 do not energize. SO relay one gets energized when the headlight switch is on (light blue wire energized) and activates because it has a direct path to ground on its second pole and relays 2 and 3 both have both poles of the relay magnet energized and don't activate until the light blue is a path to ground (headlight switch is off and ignition is on so brown wire is energized).

Not sure what the wire that looked like it was added was??? But there is no wire from the headlamp connector back to the relay board at all in the factory configuration. There is a ground wire that grounds relay one's two wire connector that exits the harness and connects right up near the drivers side headlamp bucket, its black and is attached to the core support. And the passenger side headlamp plug has a small black wire that grounds to the headlamp bracket and ultimately is the ground (through the lights) for the "close" circuit.

Clear as mud right?

My Current Baby:
1967 Camaro RS orig. 327 w/powerglide
deluxe bench front seat Int. w/ power windows,
factory A/C, factory four piston disc brakes,
454 Big Block currently w/TH400

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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

actually it does make much more sense, you seem to have a good handle on this system, I figured the ground should go to the core support, that is what I put in after I removed the stupid one going to the headlamp socket, so I must be on the right track, need to check the ground at the passenger side headlamp, that may be my problem...can't tell u how much I appreciate the help, I will look at it closer tomorrow evening and hopefully find where my problem is, I will let you know what I come up with...
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 01:53 PM
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Adam
 
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Good luck man! It is a beautiful thing when these work and you get that first open/close of them. My car wasn't a car until I got this part working :-)

My Current Baby:
1967 Camaro RS orig. 327 w/powerglide
deluxe bench front seat Int. w/ power windows,
factory A/C, factory four piston disc brakes,
454 Big Block currently w/TH400

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 02:02 PM
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Adam
 
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Location: Lehi, Utah
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Oh btw, everything I figured out was trial and error much like you are going through I had a lot of head scratchin :-)

My Current Baby:
1967 Camaro RS orig. 327 w/powerglide
deluxe bench front seat Int. w/ power windows,
factory A/C, factory four piston disc brakes,
454 Big Block currently w/TH400

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Posts: 142
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

OK so with the engine running and the headlight switch pushed IN, the brown wire to relay 2 is supposed to have 12v?? mine is the opposite, 12v with the switch pulled out and ground with it pushed in? that puts ground on all 4 contacts of relay 2 and 3,, I want to apply 12v to relay 2 ( brown wire) but I don't want to fry the whole thing?? if it is grounded now, I need to find out where that ground source is comeing from right??
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

ok making progress, put 12v to relay 2 and 3 and the passenger side closed? removed the 12v and now the passenger side is working fine, opening, closing fine.. the drivers side however is still not closing, I bumped the headlight assembly switch and it moved, so low and behold the headlight switch is wired backwards somehow, that switch is supposed to open the ground path not close it?? if I am reading this correctly, or, it is supposed to open the voltage path, I need to look closer at the WD to see but I am getting closer.. just about fell over when the one door closed...
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

one step forward, 2 steps back,,, I started to rearrange the wiring on the drivers side lite bracket switch and lost everything, back to ground zero, worse off than before,*&^%
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 04:18 PM
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Brad
 
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Location: southrust Virginia !!!
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Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

I will tell you what I did , may not be what you want to hear but it fixed mine ,,,
anyway , the factory RS system on 67's is very complex and has to many thing's that can happen to cause it not work I mean if one limit switch is not getting a good conection it won't work , I kept mine working like factory for several year's but got tired of constantly having to repair it , SO I installed a ROCKER SWITCH and mounted it under the dash were it is not visable but is easy to reach with your left hand , the ROCKER switch I installed is just a universal switch that will reverse 12 volt power , tilt itone way the headlight's open / titl it the other way the headlight's close THAT'S IT , the only time any wire's are hot is when you are pressing the rocker switch to either open or close the headlight door's ,,,, I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM SINCE !

to install it all I did was unhook any power going to the original headlight system and hooked the rocker switch directly to the headlight motor's ,,,

this is one like I have



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Marin...ssoriesQ5fGear

1967 RS 327
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Posts: 142
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

thanks for the rocker switch plan, i was thinking of going that way, I considered doing exactly what you described after day 5.. but now it is like I am on a mission, i NEED to fix this friggin thing.. of course, in a few months when it goes south again, I will probably defer to the rocker too, but for now, I trudge on.. I am back at one side working fine, the other not working at all, I need to wire out the limit switches on the drivers side and see what I get, thanks
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Posts: 142
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

oh ya, baby,,,, I got it,,,, I had the ground on the drivers side headlight switch on the wrong contact, had it on the normally closed instead of the normally open, that was probably the primary issue from the beginning, but the information provided above was integral to my success !!!! Thanks very much, could not have gotten there without knowing wher the voltage was coming and going ... hey, Lehi is that little town tucked up against the mountains going into salt lake on the 15 right? always dig going thru there, neat little town with some really nice homes... we pass by on our way to Montana and Wyoming... love the snow.. have a great weeken, I know I will!!!!
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 12th, 10, 10:14 PM
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Adam
 
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Posts: 127
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

Saweet! Feels good huh :-) Glad you got it. Yep Lehi is that very same place you describe. It used to be pretty po-dunk but anymore its kinda in the middle of everything (at least to my eyes!).

Have a great weekend! I'll wave next time you drive through :-)

-Adam

My Current Baby:
1967 Camaro RS orig. 327 w/powerglide
deluxe bench front seat Int. w/ power windows,
factory A/C, factory four piston disc brakes,
454 Big Block currently w/TH400

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 13th, 10, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Gary
 
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Posts: 142
Re: 67 RS headlight doors BIG electrical trouble

thanks adam, had a setback again this afternoon,, the stupid thing is not working with the engine off,,, I was under the impression it was supposed to work with the key switch on but the engine did not necessarily need to be running, I am now in a situation wher the doors work fine with the motor running but something is tripping when the key is on and engine off?? looking into that tomorrow? maybe a bad breaker? have not replaced that yet...
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