The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . . - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 07:54 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Location: Richmond, VA
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The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

I've got a couple of specific questions that I can't quite find answers to. Believe me, I've searched and read lots of threads.

I have a '67 RS. The previous owner totally rewired the headlight system with all black wires - lots of stuff is rusty, messed up, etc. To make a long story short, I want to bypass the entire system and just hook up a toggle switch to open and close the doors myself, as another member has done. So, here's my first question:

I took the headlights out of the car so I could wire the motors directly to the battery to test them. In doing so, I saw that the electrical connector on the motor had 2 connection points. If I hooked the negative to one and the positive to the other, the door opened, and if I reversed the wires, the doors closed. I don't understand how I can hook up a toggle switch to make this work. If I hook two positive leads from the toggle switch (one to each connecting point) then what about negative or ground? I'm electrically challenged. Any help would be welcome.

My second question: I tested the second motor the same way and it wouldn't move. Just to eliminate the connector as a failure point, I wired the battery directly to the electrical prongs sticking from the top of the motor. Still didn't work. Is it a safe bet to assume the motor is toast and I need to buy a new one?

Thanks!

One foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel. . .
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 08:00 AM
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Tom
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

Please don't do the toggle switch thing. If you are electrically challenged, it's probably just as easy to buy a new harness and install it correctly. Your troubleshooting so far seems sound, so I bet with some help from us here, it won't be tough at all. Your car will be worth more and safer too! Try to take the motor gears apart to see what the trouble is but it does sound like toast.

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 08:21 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

I've got so many other problems with this car (many more than I thought or hoped it would have) that, at this point, I'm just trying to get these working as cheaply/easily as I can so that I can allocate my time and money (both of which are in short supply) to fixing the other, more important issues. Everything will still be there if I want to get it working correctly later. Of course, if I REALLY want cheap and easy I guess I could just open and close them by hand like I've been doing!

I think that's a good idea to take the motor apart and check it out. Doesn't seem like I have anything to lose.

One foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel. . .
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 08:25 AM
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Tom
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

Well, first I would check to see if all the components are there: 4 limit switches, 3 relays, a breaker, relay board. Then you can test all these individually without laying out any cash. Meanwhile open and close by hand but beware, you can break parts that way too.

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose RS View Post
Well, first I would check to see if all the components are there: 4 limit switches, 3 relays, a breaker, relay board. Then you can test all these individually without laying out any cash. Meanwhile open and close by hand but beware, you can break parts that way too.
I really don't like opening them by hand at all.

The 4 limit switches and 3 relays are definitely there. Not sure where the breaker and relay board are. Also not sure how to test each piece individually although I think I have a how-to bookmarked here somewhere. To be honest, I've been cramming so much info about so many different parts of the car that I probably read it and don't remember. I know I saw a wiring diagram, but without knowledge of electrical stuff it didn't help me much.

The most "action" I've achieved from the headlight doors is that the driver's side one opens as soon as I start the car. It doesn't close on its own. The passenger side does nothing, of course, since the motor is fried.

What I'll probably do is just buy a new motor, make sure all the connections on the current wiring are sound, plug the headlight buckets in and see what happens.

One foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel. . .
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 09:39 AM
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Tom
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

The three relays and the breaker are all mounted to the relay board under the driver's side fender. You found the relays, the breaker should be there as well. Red and Orange wires.

If you could unmount the relay board and post a picture of it, we can tell if it's wired correctly, or missing stuff.

If you want to stop all the motion of the motors, there is a light blue/brown pair of wires and connector down by the brake pedal. Disconnecting this should cut the motor control. Unless the wiring is more hacked than stock at this point...

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 09:47 AM
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Ted
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

If you want to use a toggle switch, I believe it is a single pole double throw swtich. The switch is always centered, push it one way doors open, push it the other doors close. You must hold the switch long enough for the doors to fully open or close but that is only a second. You can get them at Radio shack. I have a 69 which I converted over to elec. motors. I think this conversion might be in a sticky at the top of this section. And a wiring diagram might be included. Otherwise I will check and see, but I think I have the wiring instructions at home. And yes it sounds if your one motor is toast.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgifford5 View Post
If you want to use a toggle switch, I believe it is a single pole double throw swtich. The switch is always centered, push it one way doors open, push it the other doors close. You must hold the switch long enough for the doors to fully open or close but that is only a second. You can get them at Radio shack. I have a 69 which I converted over to elec. motors. I think this conversion might be in a sticky at the top of this section. And a wiring diagram might be included. Otherwise I will check and see, but I think I have the wiring instructions at home. And yes it sounds if your one motor is toast.
If you did have the instructions, that would be great. Seems pretty simple. I would imagine, as I said that, the positive from one side of the switch would go to one side of the motor's electrical connector, and the positive from the other side of the switch would go to the other side of the motor's electrical connector. Just can't figure out what to do about ground, if anything. Maybe it grounds through the headlight bucket or something.

One foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel. . .
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 10:46 AM
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Al
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

I did a writep on homemade elec RS headlights with a toggle several years ago and it was posted in the stickies, but the previous elec mod deleted them when he got demoted.

The wiring is pretty simple. Ted is correct - single pole double throw momentary toggle switch from Radio Shack. Get the spring-loaded version (that's the "momentary" part, I believe) Switch is just a few bucks.

In your case - since the wiring appears to be hacked already - you'll have to disable all of the relays, limit switches, etc and just deal with the two wires that operate the motors. Switch the polarity and they turn in the opposite direction.

Once you've found those two wires from each motor, wire the two motors together temporarily. At the temporary splice, hook your battery charger to them and see if they're doing what you want them to do. Specifically, are both doors opening and closing together? If one is trying to open and the other is trying to close, just reverse the wiring.

Please don't laugh at my wiring diagram.

Run two wires from the splices into the pass compartment, and then wire the toggle per the diagram. Push the switch one direction and they close, push it the other direction and they open. The switch and the wiring is responsible for the polarity change which reverses the direction of the motors. The switch is spring-loaded back to center, which is the "off" position. Be sure and use an inline fuse on the wire running from your 12V source to the switch. You can use a "key on" or "always hot" source for your 12V, your choice.

This system, while admittedly a bit hokey, has worked well for me for years. I DO have a control box which will activate the system by using the headlight switch (courtesy of Mat Klemp), but haven't gotten around to installing it yet. I hid the toggle in the ash tray.



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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

I love that drawing! It's right on my level.

One foot in the grave, the other on a banana peel. . .
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old May 10th, 10, 11:40 AM
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Ted
 
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Re: The ol' pesky RS headlight covers. . .

That drawing is probably similar to what I have. Simple and gets the message across. I located my toggle just left of the steering column along the bottom edge of the dash. There was a hole the size of the toggle switch already there. This is on a 69 though. Don't know if 67 would be the same.
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