69 Z with console, wont charge. - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 06:50 AM Thread Starter
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69 Z with console, wont charge.

Can anyone help? I have a 69 Z/28 with the console gauges. I had a 1 wire alternator, but changed it out when I got a #'s matching one. After installing the alternator, and running the car, I found it was not charging. I have the assy manual. I jumped the voltage regulator and the battery started charging. Once the engine gets turned off, it wont start charging again, until I jump the brown wire on the voltage regulator plug. Tha console gauge reads good for continuity. Tha assy manual shows the brown wire going to the gen idiot light, I have no wiring for a gen light in the dash, only a right turn signal. Whats wrong, or what am I missing?
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 07:49 PM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Let me preface this by saying I only run internal regulator alternators so I'm not completely sure about this....

I'm not 100% on how to wire it but the console gauge cars did not use a generator light. I think they do still have a resistor bypass wire between the brown wire and maybe the ACC position on they key switch? It's not in the standard schematics though. Normally you have the resistor and light bulb in series with 12V on one side, the other side going to the voltage regulator. If the bulb burns out, current will still flow across the resistor so the alternator keeps charging. The brown wire is essentially the "sensing" wire for your charging system and the voltage on it will control the regulator's output. You do not want to connect it to straight battery/system voltage under normal operation as the system design requires some resistance in the circuit.

If you have a meter, check the brown wire with the car running. If you get nothing then you'll have to find out where the break is in the brown wire. If you get voltage of 9V or better then either the regulator needs to be adjusted or replaced.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
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Talking Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Thanks for the help. There is 0 volts to the brown wire when "Off, Accy, Start, or Run position. If the voltage regulator plug is jumped while the car is running the car will charge, that is jumping the "red-brown" wire at the plug. If you turn the car off, the charging circuit will collapse. When the car is re-started, the regulator plug will have to be re-jumped, to complete the circuit. When I say "jumping the red-brown wire", it's only to start the car. The jumper can be removed, and the car will still charge, sealing the circuit. Where does the brown wire go? The console ammeter is black, and black white tracer into and out of the 12 pin harness. Sorry to be a pain in the a_ _. Thanks again
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 06:20 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

The 16 AWG brown wire should go to the bulkhead connector, then continue on in the car's main wiring harness coming off the fuse block inside the car. However, since you do not have a generator light there will not be a 16 AWG brown wire in the main harness under the dash. Instead you will have only a 24 AWG brown/white wire going to the ignition switch according to my standard schematics. You should have continuity from the brown/white wire on the ignition switch out to the voltage regulator (actually will show a resistance of maybe 40 ohms?) In the drawings, this is labeled "resistor wire" and is the parallel path to the gen light (in non console gauge cars).

The "ammeter" is really a millivolt meter. Full current does not flow through it like a real ammeter. Instead, one wire goes to the horn relay bus bar and the other wire goes to the battery positive junction point on the radiator support behind the battery. What it does is measure the voltage drop across the alternator's charging wire running from the bus bar to the battery. Battery voltage higher it shows discharge, alt voltage higher (pushing current to battery) it shows charge.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Thanks a Million. The wiring diagrams are sometimes complicated. Thanks to you guys at Team Camaro, I also found out what that "other" light socket is in the console with 3 wires on it. It's a low fuel light. We learn each day. Thanks for your help.
1969 Cortez Silver, X-77, V1120DZ, Endura Bumper, Chambered Exhaust, 713 interior, P.O.P. Bought from Baierl Chevrolet, Wexford, Pa, 01/31/1969.
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 07:18 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

BTW, the schematics are kinda ambiguous for the ignition switch but best I can tell it appears that the brown/white wire should be landed on the same ignition switch terminal as a 12 AWG brown wire that then supplies the fused circuits for the heater, radio, and wipers. I assume that these would be powered with the key in "RUN" so the brown/white wire should be hot in "RUN" and unfused.

It appears that the main supply to the ignition switch is a 12 AWG red wire straight from the horn relay bus bar with only a fusible link at the bus bar. So, that to me says if that was bad you wouldn't be able to start the car or have any power inside it.

I'll PM you a link to the basic schematics, but they do not have the console wiring on them. The charging circuit should be the same other than the absence of the brown wire for the gen light as mentioned earlier though.

Oh, you're welcome....we're posting at the same time, saw you post while editing.

'69 Camaro
Dart 400-AFR 195-224/224 HR-Powerjection III TB with F.A.S.T. Sportsman XFI
TKO 600-Moser 3.42-Detroit Truetrac
500hp/538lbft

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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 07:30 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

This scematic might work.

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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Thank you Everett. It certianly helps. All you guys are great! If I can help, please reach out.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 5th, 13, 09:43 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

My concern is the alternator hook-up.
Is the harness already wired for an internal reg'd alt?
Is the harness set-up for an external reg'd alt and going to an internal?
Is this a SI alt or a CS alt?
The brown resistive wire will be in place regardless, part of dash harness.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 13, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
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Unhappy Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

The harness is hooked up for a external voltage regulator. The alternato is 1100837, 37 amp. not sure what a C/S, or SI alt is. I still cant get the system to work. The brown wire at the regulator plug is still dead at all times. We ran a wire to the + side of the coil to the brown wire connection at the voltage reg plug. The car started, amp console gauge worked, but would not shut off. We tried the same running from the "ign" terminal at the fuse block, same result, would not turn off. We also tried a 3 wire voltage reg from a 1969 GTO, gauge only car, all worked good, but the "field" wire was constantly alive, and would drain the battery.
Today I will drop the steering column to see if I can see the wiring, to see if anything is pinched or cut. I will also try to find the brn/w wire and the brn wire going to the ign sw.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 13, 07:20 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

You have the OE configuration external reg'd 10DN alternator.
By connecting a hot wire to the brown wire, the ign circuit is being backfed, hence the reason the engine still runs.
The brown wire, from the GEN light, is paralleled by a brn/white resistive wire as shown. If you don't have a b/w wire, you can make one using regular wire and a 15 to 25 ohm 25-30 watt resistor.

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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 13, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

I'm ready to put the 1 wire alt back in, but want to keep the car as original as I can. I'm going back to the garage laterand see if I can trace the wiring. I can see the brn, and brn/w on the interior side of the bulkhead connector in the AIM book. I somehoe missed it earlier. Thanks again for your help. I'll probably ask for more help later. Not sure how far I'll get today, Nor'easter hitting now on Coastal NJ. Thanks again.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 6th, 13, 03:26 PM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REH57 View Post
Not sure how far I'll get today, Nor'easter hitting now on Coastal NJ. Thanks again.
You're welcome. We, at the Beach, are enjoying 35-50 mph winds from the North, then later this PM, as the Low goes through, from the west.
Good luck.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 13, 04:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Thanks for the diagrams , they sure helped. I have now located the problem. I removed the fuse box and the bulkhead connectors, that separate the engine and interior portions. The brown/white wire is long gone, the connector was in place with a small portion of insulation still in place indicating brn/w. I cut back the tape back on the interior harness and found a 4 inch piece with some insulation on it.
Where can I get another piece of #24, 12 ohm wire, and I know it goes from the brown wire on the bulkhead connector, what terminal does it go on at the ignition switch? I have tried auto parts places, speed shops, and some long time starte and alternator shops, with no luck trying to find it. Any ideas?
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Mar 8th, 13, 05:06 AM
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Re: 69 Z with console, wont charge.

Visit Radio Shack, or a TV repair shop, and get a min 15-20 watt resistor.
Solder regular wire onto each end and sub in place of the brn/wht wire as shown.

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