Alternator Help - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 13, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Question Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69-Pace View Post
Yeah sounds like your Alternator - have it tested but first check the belt tension. Also double check the Voltage Regulator connection harness for snugness.
I'm back to this again!

Took the alternator to have it tested.

It passed the Lamp/Diode Trio test
It passed the Rectifier test
It failed the Regulator test (which my guess is, it failed due to the regulator is external)

Here is the printout.
Battery Volts- High 15.7, Low 13.7, Actual 13.36
Ripple Volts- High 2.0, Low 0.0, Actual 1.85
Lamp on volts - N/A
Lamp off volts - N/A

So...Alternator seems okay. Still don't know why the car is cutting out when lights/radio etc are on.

Should I start a new thread on this since it's not related to the light relay harness install?

1968 Camaro RS/SS 350 - owned for 21 years


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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 13, 07:21 PM
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Re: Putting headlights on relay...

It failed the regulator test, if it was bench tested as an external regulator that would indicate that the exciter signal sent to the alternator by the bench system failed to trigger a charge if I remember correct. Everett will step up on that subject if I'm wrong.

If it is that I'm right you may not need a new thread as you will have your answer - the unit failed and needs rebuild or replacement.


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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 04:32 AM
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Re: Putting headlights on relay...

Reading back over this thread, you have a 55 amp 10DN alternator, a VR715 reg, something other than stock headlamps, and the intermittent running.

First, on the SS VR install, '67's & '68's use rubber wellnuts for mounting the reg and a strap from the rad support to the VR chassis. Do one of two things, 1) remove the wellnuts and bolt the VR directly to the rad support with a star washer between the chassis and VR, or 2) install a ground jumper from VR chassis to rad support/ground. Alt case & VR have to be on the same reference for proper control.

Take the alt and VR to a dedicated Starter/Alternator repair and have them tested together, or take the Camaro to a shop having a VAT-40 tester and test on the car. View the results. The latter would be a better test.

A 10DN alt, or any alt, will show 12.5 volts at idle with a full load/accessories on. As long as voltage goes up as loads/demands are removed, the better. An alt, any alt, will provide max power at high rpms.

Does the Camaro run good with headlamps off? No intermittent action?

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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Car runs great with headlamps off. However, I can also get it to die turning on fan, radio and putting it in reverse. It usually fails in reverse with the lights on, this is intermittent though. I don't think it's related to the relay light harness, which I disconnected temporarily getting the same results with fan, radio and reverse. I checked idle (700 in park)...even bumped it up a bit temporarily, same issue.

I was having this issue before replacing the VR with the VR715 (had original points VR before). I used new rubber wellnuts as my originals fell apart when I unscrewed them.
The old original VR was gnded to the rad support with a wire from the same point the radio capacitor was mounted to the VR. I rewired the same way with the new VR. I even left the capacitor even though I read it was no longer needed with the VR715

Car wiring is all original, distributor is orgiinal (except Pertronics). Original am/am radio and a/c.

I do have an appointment at a shop on Thursday.

1968 Camaro RS/SS 350 - owned for 21 years


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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Everett wrote in PM:
Swap out the petronics module for the point set and try the same procedure - dies or not?
With the Petronics, did yuo run a new power wire from the IGN spade on the fuse panel or use the original cloth-covered wire?
Using the cloth wire, gives a reduced power and with all the accessories on, not enough power remaining to power the ign...Everett


I did not add the Pertronics. It was added when I had the car dyno tuned 3 years ago.
Tuning/timing/carb adjustment are black magic to me.
I don't know if they added a new wire, I doubt they did. Perhaps this is the issue.

Is the Pertronics module worth having?

Forgot that the coil is aftermarket (an MSD Blaster)

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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 11:02 AM
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Re: Alternator Help

Usually the Pertronix Igniter (I, II or III) is matched to a corresponding coil based on ohm. Other coils can be used, but the system works best (per the manufacturer) when the ignitor and coil are matched. The ignition wire to the igniter is easy to view, either it's the white cloth covered wire, or it's something else.

What kind of electrical accessories do you have (head light type)?
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mahunt View Post
Usually the Pertronix Igniter (I, II or III) is matched to a corresponding coil based on ohm. Other coils can be used, but the system works best (per the manufacturer) when the ignitor and coil are matched. The ignition wire to the igniter is easy to view, either it's the white cloth covered wire, or it's something else.

What kind of electrical accessories do you have (head light type)?
When I get home, I'll take a look at the wiring to the ignitor.

As to the question, I only have the headlight relay harness pictured here...

https://www.camaros.net/forums/showpo...1&postcount=51

...and Silverstar bulbs.

As above...I disconnected the relay harness temporarily and am still having issues.

This issue may have been around for some time and I just never had it happen because I don't drive at night much and I rarely run the fan.

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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 06:48 PM
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Re: Alternator Help

Yes, it is a matched system if the same manf is used throughout the system, ie, module and coil.
One of two choices you can do, when you drive the Camaro, jumper a hot wire from the positive battery post to the coil + terminal as this will provide direct battery/electrical power instead of through the ign switch. If Camaro runs without interruption, then either a bad ign sw, the electrical part, as you can use the same tumbler for the new switch, faulty connection either to the ign sw, red wire power comes in, or a bad firewall connection from the ign sw to coil.

The other choice is rig a light bulb, such as a reverse light socket with bulb, ground one lead inside the interior and route the other lead of the socket to the coil + terminal and watch the bulb. If it glows intermittently, see faults listed in above sentence. If it glows continuously, then problem is elsewhere. Might attach the light to alternator BATT stud.

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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 13th, 13, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Yes, it is a matched system if the same manf is used throughout the system, ie, module and coil.
One of two choices you can do, when you drive the Camaro, jumper a hot wire from the positive battery post to the coil + terminal as this will provide direct battery/electrical power instead of through the ign switch. If Camaro runs without interruption, then either a bad ign sw, the electrical part, as you can use the same tumbler for the new switch, faulty connection either to the ign sw, red wire power comes in, or a bad firewall connection from the ign sw to coil.

The other choice is rig a light bulb, such as a reverse light socket with bulb, ground one lead inside the interior and route the other lead of the socket to the coil + terminal and watch the bulb. If it glows intermittently, see faults listed in above sentence. If it glows continuously, then problem is elsewhere. Might attach the light to alternator BATT stud.
Well, I'm sure what I have is not matched. I had the MSD blaster coil before the Pertronics module was installed. Hmmm.

Here is how it is wired. Original factory harness brown wire tied to neg side of the coil.
Original factory harness whitish cloth covered black wire tied to Pos side of coil.
Yellow original factory harness wire tied to Pos side of coil (assume this is the tach)
Then the Pertronics module has a red lead to Pos side of the coil and a black wire to the Neg side of the coil.

Can I take battery power off of the horn relay to the Pos coil terminal? Reason being, I have no way of attaching a wire to the Pos batt terminal with the original style spring cables.

1968 Camaro RS/SS 350 - owned for 21 years


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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 12:45 AM
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Re: Alternator Help

Everett already stated that you need to have a full 12 volts going to that coil. "Original factory harness whitish cloth covered black wire tied to Pos side of coil. " This might be the resistor wire feeding voltage to your pertronix. Get a pertronix coil matched to that pertronix module (already stated earlier) and make sure you have a full 12 Volts going to that coil with ignition switched to ON.
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 07:17 AM
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Re: Alternator Help

You could also READ this and FOLLOW it's advice.

http://www.pertronix.com/support/man...itor12vneg.pdf
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 07:45 AM
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Re: Alternator Help

Which Pertronix ignition module do you have, the I, II, or III ?

I think maybe the First Pertronix offering could be wired either way (with or with resistor wire) but I can't remember about the second Pertronix ignition.

I know their latest offering, the III MUST have full battery voltage to their coil and the module to work properly. I installed one of these in my 69 this past winter. I went the extra step and ran a dedicated primary wire from the battery which is controlled by a relay triggered from the original wire that fed the coil. They sell a kit for this but I fabricated my own (which is easy and inexpensive to do).

I went a step further with an extra relay controlled by an idiot light oil pressure sending unit to kill all power to the coil and ignition module unless there is oil pressure present. Saves the engine in the event of a pump failure and prevents the coil from potentially being charged if key is accidentally left in the run position when engine is not running (which can but doesn't usually blow the module).

Get the matched coil for the Pertronix module you have and then wire it up properly to eliminate the ignition system from the list of possibilities.

BTW, my Pertronix Ignitor III module and coil have worked flawlessly since installation and I'm sold on the system. Like it 100 times more than the old MSD 6AL and distributor that was constantly corroding and rusting internally. The Pertronix makes it look stock, no UGLY MSD box bolted anywhere and it really works great!

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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkbrau View Post
Everett already stated that you need to have a full 12 volts going to that coil. ".
I understand that. I was just confirming how the ignition is wired right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mahunt View Post
You could also READ this and FOLLOW it's advice.

http://www.pertronix.com/support/man...itor12vneg.pdf
I did not install the module...this module was installed about 3+ years ago.
It was "professionally" installed by a dyno tuning shop...so apparently, they do not follow instructions if it's wired wrong. Car has run great for the years since installation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NH69Z28RS View Post
Which Pertronix ignition module do you have, the I, II, or III ?

I think maybe the First Pertronix offering could be wired either way (with or with resistor wire) but I can't remember about the second Pertronix ignition.

I know their latest offering, the III MUST have full battery voltage to their coil and the module to work properly. I installed one of these in my 69 this past winter. I went the extra step and ran a dedicated primary wire from the battery which is controlled by a relay triggered from the original wire that fed the coil. They sell a kit for this but I fabricated my own (which is easy and inexpensive to do).

I went a step further with an extra relay controlled by an idiot light oil pressure sending unit to kill all power to the coil and ignition module unless there is oil pressure present. Saves the engine in the event of a pump failure and prevents the coil from potentially being charged if key is accidentally left in the run position when engine is not running (which can but doesn't usually blow the module).

Get the matched coil for the Pertronix module you have and then wire it up properly to eliminate the ignition system from the list of possibilities.

BTW, my Pertronix Ignitor III module and coil have worked flawlessly since installation and I'm sold on the system. Like it 100 times more than the old MSD 6AL and distributor that was constantly corroding and rusting internally. The Pertronix makes it look stock, no UGLY MSD box bolted anywhere and it really works great!
I am unsure which model it is...I don't see anything on the module itself and I received no paperwork when it was installed.

It says on the Pertronix website that the I model "works better" with their coil...but does not come with a coil. Perhaps I have a I model. I like your oil safety feature...that is slick.

Does the dedicated wire (like your install) have to come from the battery...or can it come from the relay horn buss bar?

1968 Camaro RS/SS 350 - owned for 21 years


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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 09:45 AM
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Re: Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMM_ERT View Post
Does the dedicated wire (like your install) have to come from the battery...or can it come from the relay horn buss bar?
For this science project, the wire can be attached to buss bar.
Remember, when you shut it off, you will have to remove the wire/power as now not controlled by ign switch.

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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old Aug 14th, 13, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Alternator Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
For this science project, the wire can be attached to buss bar.
Remember, when you shut it off, you will have to remove the wire/power as now not controlled by ign switch.
Got it.


ONe more thing on my wiring. The original factory resistor is on the firewall...but is not connected.

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