Alternator and fan help - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
Vick
 
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Alternator and fan help

I've a 68 camaro and I'm thinking of getting a new alternator as I'm currently sporting an old 55amp one. At the same time I'm changing the engine driven fan to a new electrical.
The car is a 350, 4 speed, nothing special. It has an aftermarket radio with 4 speakers.
Later on I'll be adding an A/C and maybe a subwoofer. As of now the lights dim when I press the brake pedal or turn on the turn lights.

I have 3 questions.

1) How many amperes do I really need? And what should I get to stay on the safe side?

2) Which alternator do you recommend? /brand, etc/ - almost forgot, there are internally and externally regulated ones and also 1 or 3 wire. As of now my alternator is a 3 wire regulated externally. Should I get a 1 wire internally regulated or 3 wire internally regulated?

3) The fan - How many cfm do I need for my engine and which one would you recommend? /should be quite, good looking... you know, all those requirements we all want, but can't get LOL/

Thank you guys,

Vick
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 05:59 AM
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Scott
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Why are you moving to an electric fan?

You can't beat the original GM mechanical clutch fan with shroud for cooling...

As far as your alternator goes the original three wire external system is a great setup with the weak link being the mechanical voltage regulator, if replaced with a Wells VR715 solid state regulator you may find you'll be set, much less costly then what you are planning on now...

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 06:10 AM
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Al
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by vickcamaro68 View Post

1) How many amperes do I really need? And what should I get to stay on the safe side?

How many amps do your new elec fans draw? Generally speaking, if there are no other high draw add-ons, I'd say a 94A 12si should be fine, but do your research

2) Which alternator do you recommend? /brand, etc/ - almost forgot, there are internally and externally regulated ones and also 1 or 3 wire. As of now my alternator is a 3 wire regulated externally. Should I get a 1 wire internally regulated or 3 wire internally regulated?

I would use a 3 three wire internally regulated 12si. If you figure 94A will suffice, a reman from a parts house you trust should do - I prefer NAPA. If you need more than 94A or a chrome or polished case, look at Power Master or similar. Be aware that if you drastically increase the current draw from the alternator you will also need to increase the wire size from the stud on the back of the alt to the distribution point. A handy way of doing this is to add an additional 8ga or 6 ga wire from the alt stud to the horn relay bus.

3) The fan - How many cfm do I need for my engine and which one would you recommend? /should be quite, good looking... you know, all those requirements we all want, but can't get LOL/

The best help I have here is to use a belt driven factory style 7 blade clutch fan with a shroud, then you can avoid all this rewiring craziness. Electric fans tend to keep the "heating and cooling" forum busy. Whatever you decide - good luck!
..


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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 06:26 AM
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kevin
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

I had 2 of these and my car would go to 210* in less than 15 miles
10 Inch MONSTER COOLING (Push or Pull) Radiator Fan 1300cfm Champion
copyright 2011... 10 Inch Monster Cooling Fan... 1300cfm Push or Pull... Shipping and Accounting Automation by Teapplix

Price: $49.95
I replaced it it with one of these and my car never will see 180* even on the hottest of days
Rated up to 10,000 rpm, our 17" diameter heavy duty standard rotation fan features thick black steel hubs and 6 stainless reinforced blades with a large surface area that improve performance and fuel economy.
http://derale.com/images/stories/vir...duct/17017.jpg
although I had my alternator built to 130 amps, you should be good with 100 amps
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 08:46 AM
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John
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Hey Flat Tire. I really like the look of that fan. Can that be used with a fan clutch and where did you get it from? Was the min/max distance to the radiator? Thanks!

69 Camaro convt. Metallic grey, Blueprint Engines roller 383 stroker 445hp/465tq. Edelbrock Air Gap intake. Holley Terminator EFI. Hooker stainless headers. Tremec TKO-600 5 speed, 3.55 posi rear, Vintage Air, March Performance, TMI Interiors
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 09:18 AM
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Scott
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by flat tire View Post
I had 2 of these and my car would go to 210* in less than 15 miles
10 Inch MONSTER COOLING (Push or Pull) Radiator Fan 1300cfm Champion
copyright 2011... 10 Inch Monster Cooling Fan... 1300cfm Push or Pull... Shipping and Accounting Automation by Teapplix

Price: $49.95
I replaced it it with one of these and my car never will see 180* even on the hottest of days
Rated up to 10,000 rpm, our 17" diameter heavy duty standard rotation fan features thick black steel hubs and 6 stainless reinforced blades with a large surface area that improve performance and fuel economy.
http://derale.com/images/stories/vir...duct/17017.jpg
although I had my alternator built to 130 amps, you should be good with 100 amps
Kevin, while I'll agree that the 17" diameter fan blade you went with instead of the electrics is a far better solution, I believe their claim that it improves performance and fuel economy is bogus, unless it is used with a clutch. You just can't beat the seven blade clutch fan that GM put on their higher performance engines from the factory. Glad you are happy with your second solution though.

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 09:26 AM
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Ben
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

I bought dual spall push pull fan setup for another car I had (2500cfm I think) I bought a 100 amp alternator with internal voltage regulator. It had a post for positive and a post for ground. I ran larger gauge wire from batt to alternator with a large fuse at batt. I replaced the water pump and the radiator (not aluminum)........ I WASTED money on going electric with that car, as it didn't help. So I pulled them off and bought a new clutch fan with new clutch. It didn't overheat after that. My bro in law bought the car from me and he wanted the fans. He wouldn't listen to me, so he put the fans on anyway. The 100 amp alternator quit so he installed a smaller amp alternator (cheap one). Well guess what, he doesn't have enough power in the car to run the headlights and it over heats. He pulled out the larger gauge wire and went with the standard batt cable. He has his on a aux switch where mine was on the ignition. He forgot to flip the switch one time and almost burnt the engine up.
I don't know how this setup would work for the camaro but that's just my opinion.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 09:30 AM
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kevin
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
Hey Flat Tire. I really like the look of that fan. Can that be used with a fan clutch and where did you get it from? Was the min/max distance to the radiator? Thanks!
I don't think it can be used with a clutch. they do offer standard clutch blade fans. it is a DERALE fan. just google derale fans and click on their home page. they offer several different products.
I searched what I wanted and bought it of amazon. way cheaper and free shipping
you will have people tell you they will explode and they are no good. i run the old flexlite fiberglass flex fan on my BB in the early 70s and actually placed it on my stroker when it first went in the car.
sometime in the late 70s - 80s a lot of the fan blades were aluminum riveted on a steel frame, same as pictured above and there was no problem with them then
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 09:36 AM
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kevin
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by NH69Z28RS View Post
Kevin, while I'll agree that the 17" diameter fan blade you went with instead of the electrics is a far better solution, I believe their claim that it improves performance and fuel economy is bogus, unless it is used with a clutch. You just can't beat the seven blade clutch fan that GM put on their higher performance engines from the factory. Glad you are happy with your second solution though.
their claim that it improves performance and fuel economy is bogus, unless it is used with a clutch.
yea I have to agree, but when I bought my engine I wasn't looking for economy. but I must say if I keep my foot out of it and use 100 octane gas I can get between 11.5 and 12.5 MPG with 3:55 gears. that make ME happy
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 12:18 PM
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Scott
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixty8-camaro View Post
I bought dual spall push pull fan setup for another car I had (2500cfm I think) I bought a 100 amp alternator with internal voltage regulator. It had a post for positive and a post for ground. I ran larger gauge wire from batt to alternator with a large fuse at batt. I replaced the water pump and the radiator (not aluminum)........ I WASTED money on going electric with that car, as it didn't help. So I pulled them off and bought a new clutch fan with new clutch. It didn't overheat after that. My bro in law bought the car from me and he wanted the fans. He wouldn't listen to me, so he put the fans on anyway. The 100 amp alternator quit so he installed a smaller amp alternator (cheap one). Well guess what, he doesn't have enough power in the car to run the headlights and it over heats. He pulled out the larger gauge wire and went with the standard batt cable. He has his on a aux switch where mine was on the ignition. He forgot to flip the switch one time and almost burnt the engine up.
I don't know how this setup would work for the camaro but that's just my opinion.
Ben, your experience with the electric fan setup doesn't surprise me at all. Your bro in law is typical of many that get mislead into believing that an electric setup is better, I've never seen any setup work better than the clutch fan GM originally used. And if you need a larger alternator to power the electric fan(s), that draws more horsepower from the engine so you lose there as well. Like that saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 14, 10:12 PM
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Ben
 
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Scott, yeah I will never have this setup again. I thought that it would be nice to have a cleaner a less noisy engine bay, but the cons outweighed the pros.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 14, 06:52 AM
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Re: Alternator and fan help

I've never had any problems using an electric fan setup to cool an engine. When I read how poorly some guys engineer their setups I'm not surprised that they have problems. Is there a modern high performance car, like a Corvette, Z28 or Hellcat that uses a mechanical cooling fan?

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 14, 07:54 AM
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Re: Alternator and fan help

Mine works fine. I used that taurus/mark something fan. I have a 110 amp alternator, and a controller from summit racing. In fact its keeping it to cold. Need to take the time to turn up the adjustment. Engine runs at 130 degrees.
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