Electro mechanical help needed... - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 05:09 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Electro mechanical help needed...

I cleaned up my wiper motor yesterday and was able to bench test it tonight. The motor works perfect in both high and low, but it isn't parking. I set-up a ground from the battery to the housing so I don't think it's that. That's problem 1.
Problem 2. I'm having trouble with the the washer mechanism. It squirts excellent, but it doesn't want to stop... I figured ot how to get that to stop mechanically, but once I engage it, it won't stop unless I remove the motor's power and reset the wheel to its stop position. Its almost like the ratcheting mechanism doesn't have enough grip to get it over a ramp it needs to make it over.








'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."

Last edited by HawkX66; Jul 15th, 15 at 05:24 PM.
HawkX66 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 05:23 PM
Senior Tech
Karl
 
VetteFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Bloomfield, PA
Posts: 922
Garage
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Dave...I fiddled with mine having the same problems as you until I began to swear so loud the wife could hear me from the garage. The damn thing just wouldn't index properly to stop spraying. She yelled back "just buy a new one". It didn't take long to order this and my problems went away!

http://www.camarocentral.com/1967_19..._p/win-550.htm

Karl / VetteFreak
69 Camaro RS 350/350TH...Burgundy...711-Black Int/Houndstooth Seats
2007 Corvette Conv. LS-2/A6...Monterey Red/Black Top & Int
VetteFreak is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 05:28 PM
Moderator
Kevin
 
KevinW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Millstone, NJ
Posts: 11,092
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Problem 1: the wiper motor gets 12v all the time. The parking circuit and switch control the ground path. The switch ground is done through the black and blue wires. The park circuit grounds from the base through the brass ring to the grommet/screw/firewall. If the motor stops when you turn off the switch, then the parking ground is compromised.

Problem 2: (poor design ) When the wiper motor is running, the washer cam is following the star wheel (up and down). But it should not be pumping unless that silver arm is catching the hooks on the plastic circle. What moves the arm on and off the circle is the square plunger looking thing on top of the circle. the spring holds the plunger away from the circle (yours looks bad). The electro circuit when engaged pull the plunger in so the arm contacts the circle and it goes round and round while the cam goes up and down, geez!

Most times the cam follower is worn down and the geometry is no longer accurate. I have attempted to weld more metal on and shaping it. not completely successful yet.

Kevin


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KevinW is offline  
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteFreak View Post
Dave...I fiddled with mine having the same problems as you until I began to swear so loud the wife could hear me from the garage. She said "just buy a new one". It didn't take long to order this and my problems went away!

http://www.camarocentral.com/1967_19..._p/win-550.htm
It's good to see there is an easy option if it comes to it. Thanks. I'll probably end up swearing at some point and give in, but I hate do it when it squirts so well and it looks like it "should" be an easy fix...

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
Problem 1: the wiper motor gets 12v all the time. The parking circuit and switch control the ground path. The switch ground is done through the black and blue wires. The park circuit grounds from the base through the brass ring to the grommet/screw/firewall. If the motor stops when you turn off the switch, then the parking ground is compromised.

Problem 2: (poor design ) When the wiper motor is running, the washer cam is following the star wheel (up and down). But it should not be pumping unless that silver arm is catching the hooks on the plastic circle. What moves the arm on and off the circle is the square plunger looking thing on top of the circle. the spring holds the plunger away from the circle (yours looks bad). The electro circuit when engaged pull the plunger in so the arm contacts the circle and it goes round and round while the cam goes up and down, geez!

Most times the cam follower is worn down and the geometry is no longer accurate. I have attempted to weld more metal on and shaping it. not completely successful yet.
I have it on the car, but I'm bench testing it with wires to a battery. I screwed up and broke the brass ground strap to the isolator so I have a ground hooked up directly to the battery.
The plunger seems to be working ok. At rest, it holds the silver ratcheting mechanism away from the gear. Engage it electrically and it works until it gets to the ramp. The gear is probably worn, but it doesn't look it... Is what your calling the cam follower the silver piece that pumps the diaphram back and forth? I was thinking that didn't have a long enough stroke. Being worn would explain it.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 06:27 PM
Moderator
Kevin
 
KevinW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Millstone, NJ
Posts: 11,092
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

The cam follower is the pin on the backside of the frame. Follows the star wheel on the wiper motor. I may have to rethink my answer, there is something going on with the silver rod behind the toothed wheel. my understanding is still a work in progress

Does the motor stop when you turn the switch off?

Kevin


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KevinW is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinW View Post
The cam follower is the pin on the backside of the frame. Follows the star wheel on the wiper motor. I may have to rethink my answer, there is something going on with the silver rod behind the toothed wheel. my understanding is still a work in progress

Does the motor stop when you turn the switch off?
I think the cam follower is ok then. No groove in it. The cam that moves back and forth could be worn though. So could the star wheel. They both look ok to the eye though. The rod that indexes the wheel seems to be working ok until the star wheel gets to the ramp thats on the bottom side.
There is no switch to turn off right now. I have jumper wires running it off a battery. When I pull the wire like I shut the switch off it just stops. I'm going to look closer at the ground, but I did a continuity test and it seems like there's a good ground.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 07:06 PM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 12,908
Garage
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

If your'e pulling the 12V feed off to stop it it will not park

2017 Corvette ZO6 with ZO7 Option
66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(SOLD)
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56 (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Vega$69 is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
If your'e pulling the 12V feed off to stop it it will not park
No. Switched ground. 12v all the time even with key off when permanently hooked up.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 08:13 PM
Senior Tech
Karl
 
VetteFreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: New Bloomfield, PA
Posts: 922
Garage
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

I'm pretty sure, in my new repro replacement, the toothed index wheel does a 360 while the pump is pumping water, then shuts the mechanism (pump) off as it reaches a specific spot on the wheel...wipers continue to run.

Karl / VetteFreak
69 Camaro RS 350/350TH...Burgundy...711-Black Int/Houndstooth Seats
2007 Corvette Conv. LS-2/A6...Monterey Red/Black Top & Int
VetteFreak is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 15th, 15, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VetteFreak View Post
I'm pretty sure, in my new repro replacement, the toothed index wheel does a 360 while the pump is pumping water, then shuts the mechanism (pump) off as it reaches a specific spot on the wheel...wipers continue to run.
By the looks of it, that's the way the original runs too when it's working correctly. I think my two issues are seperate. I'm going to pull the plunger out and see if there is something stoppping it from fully cycling.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 15, 05:03 AM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,856
Garage
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

The wiper motor PARK shuts off the pump.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Heater,Wiper,Radio.pdf (33.8 KB, 33 views)

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 15, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
The wiper motor PARK shuts off the pump.
They appear mechanically and in the schematic to operate independant of each other with exception to the motor giving the washer pump the power to pump via the star gear attached to the motor body. Could you explain why you think the park circuit affects the washer?

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 15, 11:50 AM
Moderator
Kevin
 
KevinW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Millstone, NJ
Posts: 11,092
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

It does make some sense. The washer pump needs the wiper motor spinning to do the pumping (if you depress the wiper switch in off position it slides to low while pressing). So it would follow that turning the wiper switch to off (parking), should turn off the pump.

Kevin


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
KevinW is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old Jul 16th, 15, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
Senior Tech
Dave
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia/Mass
Posts: 3,008
Re: Electro mechanical help needed...

I agree with what you're saying Kevin. I don't believe the two systems are connected electrically though and the only mechanical connection is the star wheel that is driven off the motor from what I can see. What I was asking Everett was what the park feature itself has to do with it. Park or not, when the motor is off the washer won't work. The only thing the park operation does, as I understand it, is leave the motor running slightly longer after you switch the wipers to off to bring the wipers back down to the "parked" position.

'69 SS396 X66 L34 08D M21 BS
460ci Gen VI 9.75:1 AED 950 carb
241/249 @ .050" .625/.625 110 LSA

Semper Fi!

"The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing."
HawkX66 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome