Wiper motor won't stop - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 15, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Michael Lockwoo
 
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Wiper motor won't stop

I've searched the forums and have found lots of references to this question but nothing quite fits my situation. Maybe someone has experienced this.

When my wiper motor NOT connected to the firewall and disconnected from the wiper arm, it works fine...Off, slow, fast.

When I connect it to the wiper arm and bolt it up to the firewall, it will not shut off and only has one speed (fast).

I've tried purchasing a new switch. Same results with both new and old switch.

I think it must be some type of grounding issue.

Can someone please tell me where to begin troubleshooting? Thanks!
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 15, 12:04 PM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Check all the grounds and while your at it get two good braided ground straps. Put one from the body to the engine and one from the engine to the frame. Alex
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 15, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

I have brand new braided grounds going from engine to firewall and from body to frame.

I suspect I have a grounding issue somewhere because I have a slow battery drain. I've searched and cannot find the source of it. Could this also be the cause of the wiper motor problem?

I also just discovered that when the wiper motor is bolted to the firewall, it works IF I exclude the bolt going to the hole that has the ground strap tab on the wiper motor (2 of the three bolts are attached).
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 15, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

In the previous post, the motor was connected to the firewall with two of the three bolts. I left the bolt off of the hole connected to the grounding tab. I also did not connect the wiper assemble to the windshield wiper arm. In this situation, the motor seems to work ok (except for a snapping sound every few cycles in slow mode - no snapping sound in fast mode).

Now, what I have found is that with the same two blots installed and the wiper motor CONNECTED to the windshield wiper arm, the problem returns. Won't shut off - but it does change speeds.

For the motor to work properly, when you turn on the switch, this closes the circuit.

When I connect the motor assembly to the wiper arm, this must be closing the circuit - is there supposed to be some type of insulation between the ball of the motor arm and the metal tab that hold it to the wiper arm?

When I connect the bolt to the third hole (with the grounding tab) on the wiper motor, this also must be closing the circuit - this is supposed to happen right? In the off position, the switch is supposed to keep the circuit open, middle position closes it and then right position speeds it up.

This is where I am getting lost. Sorry for the long post. Mostly just thinking out loud so if someone else has this problem in the future,they can walk through it.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 13th, 15, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

So this means, when I turn my switch to the off position, the circuit is still closed.

Could it be that whatever is causing may battery drain is also causing the circuit to remain open on the wiper motor?

When you say "Check all of the grounds" what are some things I should be looking for?
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 15, 10:57 AM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

I think your problem may be in the washer pump. Pull the cover off the pump and look at the arm that is by the gear. The arm should be held off the gear by the plastic plunger. If not turn the gear past the wire tooth and see what happens.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 15, 03:06 PM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Quote:
I think your problem may be in the washer pump. Pull the cover off the pump and look at the arm that is by the gear. The arm should be held off the gear by the plastic plunger. If not turn the gear past the wire tooth and see what happens.
yep.. take the cover off..on the right of the main wheel, there is a cam bit of metal that 'clicks' over the cog in this bit of metal is a rectangle hole...if u look close at the bottom of that hole u will see a very small bit of wear in the bottom cnr (less than 1 mm)....a quick touch with mig welder and file flat and good to go for another 30 yrs or so.

Another issue I chased for a long time was the dash switch... this was a long time ago... but either it requires not to be grounded or needs to be grounded thru the mounting screws... cant rem which now.. think the 1st.. isolated.

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 14th, 15, 07:37 PM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Mine did that and grounding the switch cured the problem
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 15, 04:21 AM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Wiper switch on dash provides a ground through the switch body-to-dash interface when speeds are selected.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 15, 08:33 AM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

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Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
yep.. take the cover off..on the right of the main wheel, there is a cam bit of metal that 'clicks' over the cog in this bit of metal is a rectangle hole...if u look close at the bottom of that hole u will see a very small bit of wear in the bottom cnr (less than 1 mm)....a quick touch with mig welder and file flat and good to go for another 30 yrs or so.

Another issue I chased for a long time was the dash switch... this was a long time ago... but either it requires not to be grounded or needs to be grounded thru the mounting screws... cant rem which now.. think the 1st.. isolated.
Thanks for adding this steps. I figured he could try to fix that after he knew for sure it was bad. Wiper motor is hot fed with key on all the time. The dash switch changes the grounds to change speeds and engage the park and wash functions and must be grounded.

Jeff
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 15, 09:20 AM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

I have been racking my brain to try to see how this could come about. Jeff's suggestion about the washer pump is a good one!

Micheal, please remove the washer from the motor and remove the electrical connections and re-test please.

So normally the park circuit find it's ground through the base of the motor/bolt/firewall. But there is an internal spring contact that when parked, removes the firewall ground path. For the park circuit to find the ground all the time would mean the contact is jammed and I would expect strange noises from the gear box.

I am leaning more to incorrect wiring. You performed the wiper motor using my bench test diagram, correct? https://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...per+bench+test If the bench test is successful and the motor continues to move a partial turn to the park position (when you turn switch to off), then I would say the motor is good. If it does not park normally in the bench test, something else is going on.

If the bench test is good, but still does not work correctly, I suspect the wiring to the switch and/or the ground plate wire not present.

But those really do not match the problem exactly below are the "normal" problems

Not Parking: the ground path to the firewall not connected
Not working at all: switch or switch ground issues

Kevin


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 15, 04:03 PM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

That tiny little bit of wear (and one has to look REAL CLOSE to see it) in the cam on the cog would NOW be the most common cause due to the yrs and number times the wipers/ washers have worked over the yrs
Simple mechanical wear.
MAKE that the 1st thing to look at for any wiper / pump issues.
Quick , cheap easy fix without getting tied up in complex science.

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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 15th, 15, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Thanks so much for the suggestions! I think I'm getting closer to solving the problem. i found the arm with the rectangular hole in it. When i crank it by hand I can see how that rectangular hole engages the cogs on the plastic wheel. oddly, every now and then (very regularly) it will lose it's grip on the cogs and the internal washer pump will get stuck in place. To ge tit going again, i have to press on the arm slightly so it will engage the cogs again. A few more turn and it misses.

I'm also seeing that there is no movement on the part of the plastic plunger. It looks like the cogs are designed to lift the metal arm away from the plunger on its' return (which is happening). This would drive the metal end of the plastic plunger to make contact and release over and over as the cogs turn. This isn't happening. It looks like the metal end of the plastic plunger is not able to make contact with whatever it is supposed to make contact with. It's almost as if the tip of the plastic plunger should be about 1 mm longer.

I think, at this point, Heartbeat City is going to get me for another 80.00 as I replace the windshield washer pump. We'll see if that does it. Fingers crossed.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 15, 03:39 PM
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

Quote:
oddly, every now and then (very regularly) it will lose it's grip on the cogs and the internal washer pump will get stuck in place. To ge tit going again, i have to press on the arm slightly so it will engage the cogs again. A few more turn and it misses.
yep thats it...take it off.. quick touch on that tiny little groove in the bottom cnr of the hole.. file to shape, replace and good to go...

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Sep 16th, 15, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wiper motor won't stop

The more I look at this, the more I think that the washer pump mechanism is working correctly.

Here is a picture of the cam arm that I think we're talking about. You can see the rectangular hole that catches the cogs on the plastic wheel. There really doesn't appear to be any wear here does there??? If you do see any wear, can you please tell me where to look?

As the plastic wheel turns, it reaches a gap that lines up with the plastic plunger. Once the gap reaches the plunger, the plunger extends through the gap, contacts the cam and pushes it away from the wheel. I'm guessing this is meant to shut the washer pump off. In the second picture, the plunger is through the gap, pushing the cam away from the gear.

If you want to restart the washer pump, you push the switch inside the car, it energizes the coil on the right side of this picture which creates a magnetic field and pulls the metal end of the plunger to the right. This allows the cam to reconnect with the cogs and start the washer pump cycle all over again.

Sorry if this is basic knowledge for your guys. Mostly, I'm just talking out loud to myself.

One more question. When I install the motor back into the car, does it matter which way the arm faces? I would probably put it in like this, aligning the marks on the arm with the marks on the housing.

I think, at this point 80.00 on a new washer pump would not be money well spent.

If you don't mind, I'll try to post some pics of how things are grounded. maybe you can see something that I'm not seeing. Thanks again!

Last edited by Mike L; Aug 23rd, 17 at 09:16 PM.
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