Junction Block, the mystery continues! - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 03:25 AM Thread Starter
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Join Date: May 2001
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I was up until 2 am on Saturday trying to get my starter to come alive. Everything is new now, horn relay, battery, starter, wires you name it. With the volt meter I'm at 12.5 volts everywhere. My test light also tells me everything is hot that is supposed to be. I have read all of the posts I can find, used the schematic and have had no luck. I have a new junction block coming tomorrow. How important is this really? I have a 10ga wire going directly to the horn relay from the battery. Shouldn't that work the same? Is my alternator hooked up wrong? I am using an internal alt and an HEI dist. I also tried to bypass my neutral switch behind the dash, nothing. My parking lights turn on and that's it. Could my ignition switch be bad. Sorry so long but I am eager to start this motor for the first time!! I am trying to troubleshoot everything, this is my first true restoration. Thanks guys.

1968 Camaro Z28 clone 327 .030 over, Muncie M20, DUI coil, Edelbrock Performer w/1406 , headers, 274 cam
1963 Chevy Biscayne-2 door, 283 2bbl, powerglide, Mallory Digital ignition
1985 Z-28 LG4, Edelbrock hdrs, Lakewood control arms
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 06:19 AM
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Mark
 
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Do you have a stock wiring harness or a painless one? Painless has some issues with the 68 wiring harness, in that they think the 67 and 68 harnesses are the same, and they are not. Usually this shows up in the parking lights going off when you turn the headlights on. The ignition switch also is different but I'm not sure how.

Ignition switch has nothing to do with your headlights not coming on. Check your high beam switch on the floor.

The junction block only allows you to disconnect the positive lead from the rest of the car. electrically a splice is no different than a bolted connection (bolted connections have slightly higher resistance). So it won't change anything.

Do you have a gound lead running directly from the negative cable to the fender? You need that for the charging system to work correctly. How about the ground straps from the firewall to the valve cover bolts, and from the inner fender wells to the subframe?

If you disconnect the battery with the car running does the car still run, or does it die? If it dies then you have a problem with your charging system in that your alternator is not putting out any current.

What kind of internally regulated alternator, is the idiot light still wired into the circuit? Are the connectors on the back like this II or like this --. Some regulators need the resistance of the bulb (or a resistor in the harness) to make the alternator work right.

Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 06:24 AM
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Rusty, the wiring should be simple. Check for the 12v on the batt terminal of the switch. If nothing is there. look at the ign fuse and test for 12v. if its there then the wire between the block and the ign sw is open.
If power is all good at these point. check that when you turn the key, the st term on the ign sw is getting 12v. if it is go to NSS and check the leads to it for the 12. if nothing then bad wires between NSS and ign sw. If that checks ok, then check continuity between NSS and fuse block and then fuse block to starter solenoid. it could be as simple as the firewall connection being loose.
If no power at bat term on fuse block, check the wire from the horn relay to the firewall conncetion back of the fuse block, a wire may have pulled loose or it could be a bad connection.

Brandon J. licence 1NASTY67

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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I'll try to answer all questions here. It is the original wiring harness from '68. I only have a ground to my rad support from the battery. I don't have my fenders on now. As for the other grounds there were none there when I bought the car, it was stripped. I didn't know that there were all of those other grounds. Unfortunatel I can't get the car running at all. My alternator plug looks like --. I have the the regulator bypass plug in place from M& H. I can't even jump the solenoid with a screwdriver! I have checked the batt term in the ign switch and I get power there. I jumped the two purple NSS switches together, but I get no V readings there, should I? I disconnected my firewall connection yesterday and cleaned it. I also have power at my batt terminal at the firewall connection.

1968 Camaro Z28 clone 327 .030 over, Muncie M20, DUI coil, Edelbrock Performer w/1406 , headers, 274 cam
1963 Chevy Biscayne-2 door, 283 2bbl, powerglide, Mallory Digital ignition
1985 Z-28 LG4, Edelbrock hdrs, Lakewood control arms
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 06:48 AM
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If you can't jump the solenoid with a screw driver (big terminal) to S terminal)then you have a problem with the solinoid itself. You do have 12 V (battery voltage) at the big terminal on the starter (ie, your positive cable is not broken or open circuited)

You will only have voltage at the NSS when the key is in the start position.

Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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I get 12V at the solenoid battery post. My starter is brand new I haven't even cranked it yet, I can't! My positive wire is brand new also. Could there be a grounding issue? Maybe I can have it tested?? I'll have to check the NSS tonight.

1968 Camaro Z28 clone 327 .030 over, Muncie M20, DUI coil, Edelbrock Performer w/1406 , headers, 274 cam
1963 Chevy Biscayne-2 door, 283 2bbl, powerglide, Mallory Digital ignition
1985 Z-28 LG4, Edelbrock hdrs, Lakewood control arms
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 07:00 AM
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I am going out on a limb here but, you said when you checked your voltage and with a continuety checker (light) all was well. My question is, do you have a ground circuit from the engine to the frame? Is the car body grounded to the frame/engine? I would slap a jumper cable on the engine, connect it to the battery ground and try to start the car. Take the other cable and connect it to a body location then to the engine. If that works, it is a grounding problem. I say this because when you use a voltage meter or test light, you are creating a false ground and the light/meter will work. The starter (or whatever your working on), if it has a bad ground, will not work. You have bypassed the bad ground. Just a thought.

Daddy's Hot Rod.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 07:31 AM
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To touch on what others have mentioned, you say you have a battery negative to radiator support ground!!?!??!? This usually is grounded via the fender connection, not directly. If the fenders are off then I can understand, but remember, this radiator support is floating atop rubber bushings and doesn't make a direct metal to metal contact with the frame. Your battery negative should be going to your engine block, and then two grounding straps from the back of the engine to the firewall. It sounds like you are missing this important ground. You can't move the amperage needed to turn the starter over if the ground is so weak, this is why your ground must be the same size as your positive cable and hooked up just as direct, the radiator support thru rubber bushings to the frame and then back thru some ground straps isn't going to cut it.

1969 Camaro - GM 2003 Electron Blue
Beck Racing 383 cu in 465HP Engine - Sean Murphy Inductions Stage 2 Quadrajet
TCI Streetfighter 350 - 3.73:1 Posi 10 Bolt Rear - 12.6 sec qtr mile

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 23rd, 04, 08:02 AM
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Negative cable to the engine block should provide enough ground to crank the engine over. If you have the negative cable connected to the thermostat housing bolt, and have a good positive cable connection to the starter it should crank if you jump it with a screw driver. It may not charge correctly, but apparently there are two different issues here, can't crank the starter, and won't charge the battery. Have to work on one thing at a time.

Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 25th, 04, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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IT'S ALIVE!!! Thanks for all of the responses. It was after all a grounding problem. I moved the battery ground to the motor and bought a grounding strap fo the motor to fire wall and she cranked. My other accessories work now too except for the light switch which I destroyed. Next is the fuel lines and hopefully it will fire for break in! Thanks again.

1968 Camaro Z28 clone 327 .030 over, Muncie M20, DUI coil, Edelbrock Performer w/1406 , headers, 274 cam
1963 Chevy Biscayne-2 door, 283 2bbl, powerglide, Mallory Digital ignition
1985 Z-28 LG4, Edelbrock hdrs, Lakewood control arms
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Aug 26th, 04, 06:34 AM
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Nice to hear it was yet again the simple gremlin that was the cause of heartache! On to the next challenge! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Brandon J. licence 1NASTY67

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