Ran out of gas...on purpose...low fuel didnt light up - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 03, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

I drove around now for 3 days trying to run out of gas. my guage was on E for several days now, but no 'low fuel' light ever came on. I checked the bulb and its good... So this afternoon I ran out and had a 2.5 gallon mini tank in the trunk to get me to the gas station.
Now I filled up to first click on the nozzle and my guage reads just past F like it should. Thats the first time it ever read full, previous year full was only half full on the guage.
So now how do I troubleshoot the 'low fuel' module, its brand new from Ricks??
A search in here didnt give me any solid leads yet.
Sure hope I can get that thing to work.
Ideas? thanks folks

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 01:19 AM
Super Moderator
Bess-68's rule
 
Everett#2390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Va Beach VA
Posts: 31,670
Garage
Cool

Is the tank half full or half empty? I have seen other OE brands "Low fuel" light circuits and they have been of several designs. One is a magnetic reed switch with its own float, another has been a regular float and mechanical switch, and some have been a black box. Inside is a transistor. All of them had a lead with power applied, switch open. Close the switch, ground is applied, and low fuel lights. The black box had three wires going to it. One lead was connected to the power for the collector of the transistor. Ther base of the transistor is connected to the switch. The light bulb is connected to the emitter. When the switch is closed, it turns on the transistor to conduct, current flows from ground through the light bulb, through the emitter, and out the collector to the power source. This action lights the low fuel light. Still awake?

I know I'll get ALOT of flack on this one !! Current flow (electron flow), outside the power source, is from ground to the power source. Every time an electron moves, it leaves a hole. Consequently, hole current is in the opposite direction from electron current. Ever get shocked by those holes?

How do you think those electrons move? They fill up the hole in front of it!

Sorry, didn't mean to divert...........probably could ask Rick's for a replacement.

Give a man a rescued dog for the health of both their souls. May 2017 ROTM Winner - Thank you!
'
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CUBS - 2016 World Series Champions - Thank you, Joe Madden Ö enjoy your next chapter.
Everett#2390 is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 02:35 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grand Ledge, MI 48837 USA
Posts: 366
Post

I've got the same problem and couldn't find an answer from doing a search. I sent my module back to Rick's and they tested it and said it was fine. After reinstalling it, I grounded it and my low fuel light came on, so I know the wiring is OK to the dash. I wonder if it might be the sending unit in the tank. I havn't checked all the resistance from the tank sender, nor did I check what resistance makes the low fuel module work. My gauge works fine, so I'm hesitant to fix what isn't broke. After doing searches on this I'm not sure I want it working. It seems to be somewhat of a nusense light with less that 1/2 tank.

In your case, I suspect that the tank sending unit is probably corroded and when you ran it completely down it loosened something up. Probably just needs a good cleaning. As for your light, I don't know.

You could check the resistence from the tank at the level you would want the light to come on and then check the resistence that the module turns the light on. These are obviously different now. I don't know how you "tweak" the resistance going to the module. Maybe someone here would know that one.
kurt6325 is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

As usual thanks guys for the info.more to ponder. I should have mentioned that I had the sender out when I installed a new gas tank last winter. The sender reads perfect 90 ohm and dips with the swing of the float perfectly.
Prior to changing the tank, that sender never went above 'half full' on my guage with a full tank. Now when I filled up for the first time this year, it went to 'FULL' on the guage like it should. So Im sure Im grounded right since all that works great now.
I might call Ricks and see if they have any troubleshooting ideas. The install was pretty simple to follow directions.
Ev... do you dream about electrons and protons and Viagatrons? WoW that stuff baffles me but Im sure its all very true too. When I was a Ham radio operator in High school we never got into that stuff, just morse code and simple tech definitions.
[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 06:24 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Temple City, Ca
Posts: 523
Post

Jim
Instead of driving around on empty, a couple of resistors between the sender line and ground would have done the same thing.

Wonder if anyone has ever tested their fuses? How do you really know that 20 amp fuse blows at 20 amps?
John_Muha is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 08:55 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grand Ledge, MI 48837 USA
Posts: 366
Post

So are you saying that a resistor between the light green fuel sender wire and the black ground wire will adjust the low fuel module as to when it turns on the dash light?
kurt6325 is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 12:27 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Temple City, Ca
Posts: 523
Post

Me??
What I meant was the fuel sender is a variable resistor that goes from 90 ohms full to 0 ohms empty. A resistor between the sender wire and ground of about 10 ohms should show a near empty tank. Think Jim was just driving around 'cause the weather was nice.
John_Muha is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

You are partially right John [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] weather was great to go for drives.
Ok here is the latest. checked all connections. Grounded trunk tan wire and guage went full. My green on the module goes to Tan, Red to Pink, Blk to Ground just as Ricks told me today. I traced yellow from guage to bulb in the dash and have full continuity all the way there. I grounded the yellow to frame but no light. I switched bulbs with the blinker and same thing, blinker works with both bulbs. All fuses check out clean.
Guage has 12v on pink and about 8v on red with key on, not started. No volts on yellow, since its a ground. Im taking another tylenol soon, this is starting to hurt my head.
Here is pic of setup. Any leads on which way to look now?

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 04:25 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Aiea, Hawaii
Posts: 571
Post

Let's try this.

Pink #1(where from?)----
Pink #2(where from?)----?Posts Device?----Module Red

Tan [img]smile.gif[/img] ?trunkwire?----?Device?----Module green

Black Ground is Modules Ground ?

Yellow Module wire to bulb

Is that a stand off block the pink and brown go to and the red and green attach to? Or is that the fuel gauge.
Brown from trunk could also be the running lights/tail lights. They will give a ground but add resistance. How does the tank reading react with lights going on and off.
The car was just painted so I'm wondering if the silver plate the black ground is going to is getting a good ground with all the fresh paint.
If the red and green are going into the fuel gauge and the module is reading for low resistance there I'd think shorting between the two posts would test to see if the complete system is working. As wired that's all I can think of for testing the module beside green to ground. It might be the green and red need to be reversed if that stand off post is the fuel gauge. Wouldn't be the first time instuctions were screwed up PNP or no PNP transistors.
Snatchin'gears is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 03, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

Well the 2 pink in the same connector are part of the consel harness plug and the tan next to it is from the gas tank sending unit. The posts are the fuel guage itself. The 2 black wires are grounds, the one from the low fuel module the other from a ground wire that jumps to the other section of the guage cluster. I added the star abrasive washers to all of those grounds and even used a jumper wire from ground off the bolts holding the shifter into the tunnel. All is grounded. The guage cluster is also grounded to the tunnel seperately for more insurance. The red to pink and green to tan were from the guy at Ricks today that I talked too as well as in the instructions.
He mentioned one thing odd, if in manufacturing the wrong unit was packaged, a 67 unit sends 12v out instead of a ground completion. I guess I could switch those wires and see if it lights up.
There is the resistor plate between the pink and tan posts. Can those burn out or affect low fuel system?
scratching my head still. but learning.

[img]graemlins/clonk.gif[/img]

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 05:51 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Temple City, Ca
Posts: 523
Post

Grounding the tan wire should drive the gage empty not full. That's the way the float in the tank works.
John_Muha is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

oops thats right John. I was typing so many full and half full remarks, the guage went to E with tan grounded.
I crawled under the dash again today. My fuel warmning light has a single yellow that has continuity to the consel cluster yellow connection. the other wire on the bulb is Black. Im thinking that maybe Ive got double grounds there? My brake light adjacent to the Fuel light, has 2 pinks and a tan for its lighting up, it works fine too with Emer. brake on .
Shouldnt I have a 12v source on my fuel bulb? maybe thats where my problem is?
Still trying to figure this one out, The factory assembly manual doesnt show any wiring into that Fuel slot so Im guessing here.

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 10:04 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grand Ledge, MI 48837 USA
Posts: 366
Post

The wires going to the low fuel light should be one yellow from the console module and one 12v pink. The wires going to the brake warning light should be one tan from the brake warning switch and one 12v pink. You are probably right about having double grounds at the dash light.
kurt6325 is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 10:32 AM Thread Starter
Retired
Jim
 
click's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 15,970
Post

kurt, follow up cuz I think we are onto the fix. are both the Emergency brake light switch and the Power Brake Booster low fluid level connection, both go the same same 'brake' light in the dash? Wouldnt I then have 2 pinks to that bulb like I have now? Emer. and fluid level?
I will put power to the black wire in my 'fuel' bulb, pull it from its ground and if the light works, I will rewire with a pink to hot with key on and maybe that will do it.
[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
"There will come a time when you believe everything is finished,
That will be the beginning." Louis L'Amour
click is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 03, 11:26 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grand Ledge, MI 48837 USA
Posts: 366
Post

The tan wire goes to the brake warning switch, the tan wire from the parking brake ties into it. A connection to groung from either source will light the brake light.

The 12v pink wire just taps off any other pink wire.
kurt6325 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome