lt1 swap need help please wiring problem - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 02, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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hey guys,
i really need some help. i'm dropped in a 95 lt1 police motor and 4l60e. in a 69 camaro conv. i did as much research as i could. i didn't have the 3 conncetors, so i got i pin print out from aldata. and went by that.
all pink wires are connected to switched power. (only power on the ON postion, when cranking there is NO power)
orange wire to constant power
blk/wht to ground
purple wire from car to starter
i could not find the red wire. so i traced the red wire from black connector b-14. this wire has no power, which it should. so i jumped pink wire power to red wire but still no luck. so this is where i'm stuck. it car cranks i hear the computer clicking, the fuel primes. but no fire. i think this motor does not have VATS because its a police car motor but i could be wrong please help me. thanks to everyone reading this. Willie
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 02, 01:05 PM
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Willieboy, Welcome
Sounds like an interesting swap going and it sounds like you've got a can of worms opened there and I can't make much sense of your post. But I would love to drive the car!

I can tell you this, all I work on is police cars so I may be able to help you some.

First on a 1995 LT1 Caprice (9C1) it is OBD1 and there are 4 connectors on the PCM. The colors are red, blue, black, & white (could be gray) I believe it's even stamped on the PCM. You've lost me there when you say three connectors.

I have never seen a 9C1 with VATS but I won't go out on a limb and say it isn't possible. However there is a fuse in the fuse panel marked "pass key" that goes to a relay in the left kick panel that will disable the ignition system. I ran into an intermitent no start and it ended up being this fuse where someone had been jamming a radio wire contact into it and spread the fuse holder contacts.

Many questions jump into my head when I think of this swap.

Are you trying to say you don't have the engine wiring harness for this engine?

Is the PCM for this engine/transmission, because they are VIN # specific?

What are you using for a fuel pump?

Do you have a left and right bank O2 sensor installed?

Are the following sensors hooked up MAF, TPS, IAC, CTS, knock, MAP, & VSS?

Torque converter switch?

Do you have the air intake sealed up (like stock), going into the throttle plates? Those engines won't run at all if "home plate" is off unless you block it off. I have plug I stick in there.


If you can post more info I will look at wiring diagrams and see if I can help you. Take you time and be clear about what you are writing.

Drew

[This message has been edited by drew69 (edited 12-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by drew69 (edited 12-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by drew69 (edited 12-19-2002).]
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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 02, 01:45 PM
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I'm with Drew on this one...gonna need some more info...
I am in the middle of swapping a 95 F body LT1 into an S10 and have done alot of research also, as well as bought a used set of helms books for the f body which may or may be able to help You...but I have all kinds of info bookmarked...and will be glad to try and help...
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 19th, 02, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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ok i will try to be clearer.
i bought a 95 9c1 police car complete and took the motor,trans,stock wiring harness,computer,acc,etc...
the best reference i found is a site called eric's lt1 swap. he list basic wiring hook-ups.
pink wires are switched 12 volt power.

orange wires are constant 12 volt power.

red wires are 12 volt switched power.

purple wire from car to starter.

black & white wire are ground.

i did not have the 3 white connector thats everyone speaks of.
so i got a print out from alldata for a 95 police car caprace.

(on the alldata print out. there is only one red wire it goes to a black connector on the pcm-marked b-14)this wire is suppose to have power when the ignition is on.
i traced it and the red wire goes to the omnispark.
there's no power to it now.

i tryed connecting the pink wires to the red wire since they are suppose to be switched power but no luck.
the car cranks, the in-tank fuel pump primes,and there is power to the fuse box that i removed with the lt1 set-upand is now in the camaro. when i hit the start position there is only power to the starter no power to any of the 12volt connections.ie-pink & red wire.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 02, 04:14 AM
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Willieboy,
OK I'm at work and I see the wires you are referring to.

The 4th connector on the PCM is clear (not white or gray).

You said you have access to ALLDATA. That's exactly what I'm looking at.
Follow this sequence for good connector views with a decription and view of each pin and connector for the PCM.

95' Chevy Caprice VIN "P" > Diagnostics & Repair > Powertrain Management > Computers & Control Systems > Engine Control Module > Diagrams > Connector Views

The above will be 4 pages, each page has a view of the colored PCM connectors and a table to show what each pin is for.

OK, now back up to computers & control systems and select electrical diagrams. On the sub menu click on system schematics. There will be 7 pages for the PCM.

Also under electrical diagrams you will see a sub title called PCM power & grounds which shows the orange, pink, & black & white wires you are speaking of. These power wires are feed from the underhood fuse panel. Fuse #2 - hot all the time - orange wires (2). Fuse #5 - hot in run or start position - pink wires (2). Black & white wires (4) are grounds and each one is in a different colored connector on the PCM, it shows which pin/cavity # on the diagram.

All these diagrams should put you on the way to rock & roll. Now you just have to figure out which wires to use on the Camaro to run the PCM.

Keep us posted.

------------------
Drew

99' GMC P/U
69' Camaro X-11 350/T350,AC,PS,PB, 12 Bolt
96' 17' CC KEY WEST w/85 Yamaha (has shark fins on the sides like the 69')

[This message has been edited by drew69 (edited 12-20-2002).]
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 02, 09:03 AM
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This is wire 631?
If so, it should have power with key on and with "engine run". I guess I'm confused as this is one of the few +12vdc outputs from the PCM. Lets start at something that f#$ed me. The circuits on the old system are +keyoff, +Keyacc, +keystart and +keyrun. The old +keystart drops the voltage off when you turn the switch from start to run. The "start" circuit will only go to the starter circuit now and be sure NOT to use it for anything else.
The red wire will show +12vdc at the ISO extention cable. This connector is generally on the drivers side of the manifold and runs about a foot or so to the ISO. That cable does fail. Is there voltage at the PCM end of that connector when the ISO is disconnected? If there is you might have a shorted ISO a bad coil or coil wire. If there is no voltage, it could be a bad PCM but I really think you have the wrong power source. I used alldata and I found the ground schematics very helpful. especially the little bas%*$#s at the ignition module and coil area. Good luck and I hope this helps!


------------------
69 convertible
LT1 4L60E
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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 02, 12:38 PM Thread Starter
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ok, i will print it out. and double check all these connections. i'm on vacation next week so i will respond in 2 weeks. thanks everyone
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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 20th, 02, 01:14 PM
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Willieboy, you still have me thinking.

What are doing for a fuel pump? Fuel cell with high pressure pump? Return line?

You need 38 to 42 psi fuel pressure at idle for that engine to run right.

How about the left & right O2 sensors. What are you doing there? Welding bungs in on your exhaust pipes?

Good to hear you have the complete vehicle engine wiring harness, that makes it very easy. I wish you were close, I could wire that up easy and I would really like to see the end result. A 69' is easy a 1000 lbs. lighter than a 95' Caprice. If you can get the car to hooked up and the suspension is right all I can think about is "hang on". I take 9C1 Caprices to the limits of adhesion all the time on a closed course. Luckily we have no B4C Camaro's or I'd be in big trouble.

The first four pages (showing the PCM connectors) should be the biggest help . I had trouble finding them myself but I knew they were there which is why I put a step by step procedure to find them.

Also on the first post I spoke about the pass key fuse. That fuse is on the inside fuse panel and shouldn't come into play at all with what you are doing. If you see it on one of the PCM connectors just jump it and you will be fine.

Goodluck, Drew

[This message has been edited by drew69 (edited 12-20-2002).]
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 02, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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hey drew,
on the fuel pump i used a 255 liter in-tank from summit(walbro). forward & return lines are custom 3/8 aluminum line. i've been thinking about this for a while before i posted. i think i just have one wire either not hooked up or power thats hooked up wrong. i think the key is in the red wire that goes from the computer to the omnispark b-14. i can't figure out why there is no power to this wire when the power is on. again thanks for all your time
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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 21st, 02, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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O2 sensors are welded in the headers with steel bungs & connected to the stock wiring harness.
i never even removed the harness plugs from the motor or trans. it was all swapped over in one complete unit.
the only wires that are not connected right now are:

blue wire (which i think goes to fuel pump but i connected a thicker light gray wire to the positive side of the fuel pump)
orange & black wire- neutral safety switch.
tan wire- adal

i think thats it. maybe one more but its to an accessory. well still but getting better. thanks
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 22nd, 02, 04:03 AM
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Willeboy, I can help you with the fuel pump from memory. On the 95' Caprice there is a 3 wire connector that went to the fuel pump module. The gray wire is the 12 volt positive (feed) for the fuel pump. I believe it is the center wire in the connector. The other two are, one is ground, one is for the fuel gauge. I can't recall the colors now. They should be 16 gauge wires.

There should also be a red wire with a 1/4" female spade terminal in a black one wire connector. This is a fuel pump "test" wire and will bypass the fuel pump relay (used for trouble shooting) and is not hooked up to anything. It is located in the harness on the right front fender, near the fuel pump relay or underhood fuse panel.

The b14 wire I would have to look at a diagram. I will check back on Monday.

I heading off to see the Jaguars play the Titans.

Keep at it, Drew
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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 02, 02:29 AM
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Willieboy,
Connector B, pin #14 is the output/voltage from the PCM to the distributor.

Check these two circuits, they are ignition feeds (2) to the PCM from fuse #5 in the underhood fuse panel. Both are pink wires, circuit #539.
On the PCM
Black connector - B pin #30
Blue connector - D pin #3

Both of these circuits should have 12 volts going into the PCM with key/ignition on for distributor voltage output (the B14 pin).

Drew
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 02, 08:45 AM Thread Starter
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hey drew,
i really would like to thank you for the help. hopefully one of these days i can repay the favor. i hope you and you family have a safe and happy holiday. thanks,
willie
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old Dec 23rd, 02, 02:10 PM
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Willie, no repayment needed. That's what we're all here for. I like "special car projects" and I get paid for doing them. It's a learning process for me also because it sharpens my skills. It is not easy to solve car problems without seeing or hearing the problem. I think of this message board as taking my brain to the gym, it needs a workout too!

You have undertaken a serious project. My older brother lives in Morgan Hill down by San Jose so next time I get out your way maybe we can hook up and I can see the results. Don't get discouraged, sometimes you just have to put it down and walk away for another day. It never hurts to have a second set of eyes or ears give you a second opinion, I do it often. We all learn together.

Happy holidays to you and your family. My son just turned 21 on the 21st and finished school also the same week with an AAS degree, paid in full, so I can't ask for a much better holiday season.

Drew
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old Jan 7th, 03, 06:53 AM Thread Starter
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hello everyone,
i hope everyone's holidays went well. ok, back to my little problem. with the help from drew.(thanks drew) i got the car to run, but it only runs for 3 seconds now. the motor sounds like its running out of gas. i put a fuel pressure gauge on the motor and the fuel is right. i'm thinking it maybe the oil pressure sensor. what do you guys think?
Willie
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