distributor insight - Team Camaro Tech
Electrical & Wiring Troubleshooting electrical.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 18, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
Apprentice
Blades
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: New York
Posts: 24
Garage
distributor insight

what happens when the weights in dist get stuck /frozen rusted in place ?? lose power ?? timing goes haywire? i recently got a dist rotor upgrade kit pertonix flame thrower and as i put it in saw the rotor woukld not move / the mech advance **** was all stuck / soaked it and it freed up . if it was stuck how much damage or hp got lost

67 camaro base model 350 worked m22
front discs 3.08 rear open
bobbyblades is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 18, 08:20 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
keith
 
X-77 keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: America
Posts: 2,826
Damage probably none. Horse power who knows. Basically you had no advance. Many people run with no advance. They set it to their sweet spot. Every car is different. Depends on your cam, carb , stahl, the list goes on.

X-77 keith
1969 x-77 Z/28 orange/ white stripes, named by my daughter "Clementine ", M-22 close ratio, 4:10 12 bolt, CE 302. Hugger orange with white stripes. White standard interior. Restoration complete May 2018
X-77 keith is online now  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 18th, 18, 08:33 PM
Senior Tech
Mark
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Monument, CO, USA
Posts: 125
Re: distributor insight

I had the same issue with my X-77 about 10 years ago where the mechanical advance was stuck and there was little advance. Before I discovered the problem I essentially set the timing with a lot of advance from the beginning. However, I could tell it wasn't quite right when stomping on the gas. A timing light told the story, showing little advance when going up to about 3500 RPM. At the time I pulled the distributor and had it serviced on a machine by a friend. Recently I did update to the Pertronix solution where it seems to run a little smoother, but no big change. Fairly easy change where the only pain was running an additional switched +12V.
ColoradoZ28
ColoradoZ28 is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 18, 12:25 PM
Senior Tech
Rufas
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 468
Re: distributor insight

What? The PerTronix is a solution? I've never seen one that solved anything, just caused more problems, and failed frm being over volt'd with full battery voltage.
dave ray is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 18, 12:46 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
keith
 
X-77 keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: America
Posts: 2,826
I put a accel points eliminator in my distributor, painted a MSD blaster coil black, and never looked back. Easy and works great.

X-77 keith
1969 x-77 Z/28 orange/ white stripes, named by my daughter "Clementine ", M-22 close ratio, 4:10 12 bolt, CE 302. Hugger orange with white stripes. White standard interior. Restoration complete May 2018
X-77 keith is online now  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 19th, 18, 08:09 PM
Senior Tech
Rufas
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 468
Re: distributor insight

Please be aware that if the mechanical advance is bound up from dirt, hardened greases, and/or other issues, like some know it all taking all the end play out of the gear clearances, more than likely, so is the interface between the rotor holder/point cam/reluctor, and the main distributor shaft, and they should be disassembled, cleaned and wire brushed, re-greased, or they will eventually bind up as well.

Blaster coils made from about 2001 on have been extremely problem prone, causing more HEI module and MSD/other ignition box failures than not. These Blasters were made in either Mexico, or today's China.

NO reason any "drop-in" point eliminator should be run on full voltage, all of them should be run on RESISTED voltages same as a set of points, and no matter the coil, they will not make one more volt than a brand new set of points on their first spark, proven fact. Those drop in point eliminator things have been erroneously called HEI for way too long a time, as a sales gimmick, THEY ARE NOT AN HEI, they are a simple TCBI, NOT AN HEI.
dave ray is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 05:32 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
keith
 
X-77 keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: America
Posts: 2,826
Dave, I guess you have had problems with MSD stuff, I however have never had any problems with any MSD product. I had a blaster coil laying around and figured why not use it.
I have been building cars for over 30 years now. Points were fine back in the day, and may be fine in a car that is not used everyday, thus the reason why car manufacturers moved on. The reliability is what my customers want. If you and others like the points by all means use them, but understand that change has come, and some are moving with the times. Many LS engines and fuel injection out there in Clasic cars these days. If my customers want points, they get points, if they don't specify, they don't. I'm the one that gets bad mouthed if the car doesn't start for whatever reason. Many people have changed to single wire altinators and radial tires. Don't take it So personally.

X-77 keith
1969 x-77 Z/28 orange/ white stripes, named by my daughter "Clementine ", M-22 close ratio, 4:10 12 bolt, CE 302. Hugger orange with white stripes. White standard interior. Restoration complete May 2018
X-77 keith is online now  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 07:18 AM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 12,212
Garage
Re: distributor insight

Pertronix have been used for years in 1000s of cars for decades. Same with the other drop in conversions. I believe that most if not all are installed per manufactures instructions to run with full 12v and not resisted voltage. In fact Perttonix specifically directs to remove ballast resistor and resistance wires.

I've used and most friends have used MSD distributors, Blaster coils for years without failures. My go to is 8360 and Blaster 2 coils for SBC and BBC. I do not run ignition boxes. Just no need and they have been problematic

I believe people that have issues may be blaming the ignition components when other issues are at hand or not tuned correctly

66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(SOLD)
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56 (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Vega$69 is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 09:16 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
keith
 
X-77 keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: America
Posts: 2,826
I agree 100%. Most people don't use instructions because they think they know better. Maybe they do, but the manufacturers do usually test their products before making them available to the public. I don't use a MSD box either unless I am specifically instructed to. I don't have any of that high dollar stuff on my car, and it runs great. I guess if I was looking for et's it may be a different story.

X-77 keith
1969 x-77 Z/28 orange/ white stripes, named by my daughter "Clementine ", M-22 close ratio, 4:10 12 bolt, CE 302. Hugger orange with white stripes. White standard interior. Restoration complete May 2018
X-77 keith is online now  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 10:13 AM
Senior Tech
kevin
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: virginia
Posts: 3,603
Re: distributor insight

dave ray
if you would post a copy of your degree or document in what ever it is you have , maybe people wouldn't doubt you. BUT until then you are one of many on the internet who claim to be someone special because they like to think they have knowledge above others
flat tire is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 10:47 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
keith
 
X-77 keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: America
Posts: 2,826
I didn't start this to be a dig on the guy, just that vehicles evolve as everything does. I have not experienced the complications he is describing with eliminating points in vehicles. They may have their place , just not in my builds unless I have been specifically instructed to use them. I in no way ment this to be a bashing session . I apologize for that.

X-77 keith
1969 x-77 Z/28 orange/ white stripes, named by my daughter "Clementine ", M-22 close ratio, 4:10 12 bolt, CE 302. Hugger orange with white stripes. White standard interior. Restoration complete May 2018
X-77 keith is online now  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 11:16 AM
Tech Team
Bill
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 50
Re: distributor insight

I had something weird that took a while to figure out. I would set the timing in my z and you could wait a minute or two and the idle would fall off and the car would die. I am sure my weights, in a newly professionaly rebuilt distributor, where sticking and when they would settle back to no advance the car would die. I sent it to another guy with a sun machine and hopefully its fixed now. I had several issues and hope this solves them.
billohio is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 11:23 AM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 12,212
Garage
Re: distributor insight

The OP was about stuck advance weights.

Then a post about a similar issue with a side note about installing a Petronix and the engine running smoother. Nothing was stated the the petronix being the answer to the OPs query.

The point simply break the primary coil winding that when closed ground the 12v ignition voltage to the engine block. When the point open it breaks the ground and the current takes the least path of resistance through the secondary coil winding to the distributor cap and via the rotor to the spark plug.

The electronic conversion does the same this as the points. Just breaks the primary ground.

This little video is great


66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(SOLD)
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56 (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Vega$69 is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 11:24 AM
Senior Tech
kevin
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: virginia
Posts: 3,603
Re: distributor insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-77 keith View Post
I didn't start this to be a dig on the guy, just that vehicles evolve as everything does. I have not experienced the complications he is describing with eliminating points in vehicles. They may have their place , just not in my builds unless I have been specifically instructed to use them. I in no way ment this to be a bashing session . I apologize for that.
not about you! don't worry .dave ray and I have butted heads before
flat tire is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old Jun 20th, 18, 12:49 PM
Senior Tech
Rufas
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 468
Re: distributor insight

I havbe worked on the design and development of the large cap HEI at GM, YOU all havent. I also designed and build my opwn small-body HEI's, invented them, no degrees, just getting out and doing it. By the way, it seems you all have all sorts of degrees and education on electronics and ignition systems, as you all seem to know how to do it better than anyone else, just ask you..

flat tire, YOUR degrees, sir, please? I trust you are the most knowledgeable person in the universe, on everything and everybody, you always seem to go after those that actually do kno0w what they are doing.

On that "old Blaster", what does the sticker on the bottom of it say as a point of manufacture? If it is USA, it is a good Andover coil. Mexico, Pro-Bobbin, trouble, China, still trouble, but, all of you knew all that already, being the only experts on earth that know anything.

I work in the auto ignition industry, and fix what all of you tell others to do, which makes for some really bizarre problems.

Of course, the reluctor and main shaft cannot be bound up from emulsified grease, only the weights, right...GIVE IT A REST. How many of you see about 30 percent of the distributors sent to YOU for work, that the main shaft will not cleanly pull out of the body, locked up by the grease and other deposits on the main shaft that won't allow it to pull out of the bushings cleanly? Those aren't that bad, as you all know, it isn't that hard to push the shaft and upper bushing out with a press, because the grease buildup has locked the shaft onto the bushing hard enough to need pressing out of the body. Then, how many of you have wire brushed the greases off the shaft, then heated the bushing to get it to loosen enough to remove it from the shaft? Come on, tell it like it is, what YOU have done in the distributor rebuilding world. Especially YOU, flat tire.

Just how many of you on these boards actually work on distributors EVERY DAY, and fix the junk you all create with all the useless stuff you con people into using? Oh, what, NONE of you, I thought so.


Do all of you see at least a hundred busted Ignitors every year, blown up from too much feed voltage, no resistor, well, I didn't think so, but.......I DO.
dave ray is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome