Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

I purchased some very good electric cutouts through Kindig it Design. The switch that comes with the kit is a standard rocker switch that you have to hold down until the butterflies have fully completed their movement. When this kit is installed at their shop, a "Proprietary" designed switch is installed that automatically completes the cycle without having to hold the switch. They will not include this switch with the purchased kit for install off site.

So I decided I was going to "Do it myself". I purchased a real nice blue-lit LED DPDT push-button momentary switch and some time delay circuits. I just can't get it to work myself. I think I am over-complicating it.

Does anyone out there have a simple setup so I can just push the switch and not have to hold it down to complete the cycle? I tried to persuade Kindig to sell me the switch, and even offered to sign a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement), but no go. You will notice the comment at the bottom of the Cutout description about the "One Touch Module"

The problem where I'm getting confused is this system reverses the voltage to reverse the butterfly. In order to close the cutout, the voltage gets switched. I can't figure out how to wire the switch into the system.

If anyone has any suggestions or ideas I would love to get this annoying project tackled and relieve me from this obsession.

I ordered this switch and this timer and these cutouts;











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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 04:28 AM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

Hi Brett
How does that butterfly setup work at the end of its stroke? Does a clutch slip or does it stall? I am assuming it hits stops. Does the reversing board require maintained power for it to remember where it was? In the pics it appears that the system is made to operate from the board mounted switch without remote capability. Have you identified that switches function? NO, NC, momentary? I can see 4 legs. It surface mounts so there could be others out the back. You need to replicate that function. If it has a normally closed circuit running in it you will likely need to take it off the board rather than jump it.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 12:33 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

First off throw away that motor controller. The output relay appears to only be rated for only 5V and I assume the cutout motor requires at least 12V. Also the rated input voltage is 5-12V which is not enough for an automotive application where the voltage is typically 14.4V with engine running. I would try to find something that was rated upwards of 16V and low as 5V since the battery can drop as low as 9V when starting the engine. What are the voltage and power requirements for the cutouts? I would look for a power window control module that can automatically shut off the current when it senses an over-current condition, much the same way a power window operates. I'm going to guess that the cuttoff motor will be similar to a power window motor.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 01:41 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

I would guess the cutouts open and shut pretty quick. Canít just use the switches that came with to cutouts?
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 04:34 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I would guess the cutouts open and shut pretty quick. Canít just use the switches that came with to cutouts?
This would also give you the ability to adjust them from fully closed to full open and anywhere in between. You can control flow and loudness.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 19, 06:35 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

Here's what I would try. Get a one touch control module.

I couldn't find the user manual so I'm not sure how you go about adjusting the current limit, but I can see in some of the pictures that there appears to be a couple of adjusting screws on the side. The other thing that's not immediately obvious to me is how the switch works. The switch in the schematic is drawn very poorly and I can't tell if it's suppose to be a momentary switch or a latching switch. I would try your momentary switch first and see if it works. If the motor doesn't keep running until it is fully open or closed then try holding the button down and see if the module will cut power to the motor once the cutout is fully opened or closed.


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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

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Originally Posted by 3d cad View Post
Hi Brett
How does that butterfly setup work at the end of its stroke? Does a clutch slip or does it stall? I am assuming it hits stops. Does the reversing board require maintained power for it to remember where it was? In the pics it appears that the system is made to operate from the board mounted switch without remote capability. Have you identified that switches function? NO, NC, momentary? I can see 4 legs. It surface mounts so there could be others out the back. You need to replicate that function. If it has a normally closed circuit running in it you will likely need to take it off the board rather than jump it.
I think it just hits the end of travel. If you keep pushing the rocker it will burn the motor up I think. By the way, I did not include the wiring harness that came with the cutouts. The switch and circuit board are all things I purchased, so they might not be correct for the application (Like the circuit board that was mentioned to be thrown away, haha).

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzer454 View Post
First off throw away that motor controller. The output relay appears to only be rated for only 5V and I assume the cutout motor requires at least 12V. Also the rated input voltage is 5-12V which is not enough for an automotive application where the voltage is typically 14.4V with engine running. I would try to find something that was rated upwards of 16V and low as 5V since the battery can drop as low as 9V when starting the engine. What are the voltage and power requirements for the cutouts? I would look for a power window control module that can automatically shut off the current when it senses an over-current condition, much the same way a power window operates. I'm going to guess that the cuttoff motor will be similar to a power window motor.
HaHa. Good suggestion! I will. It was only 4 bucks and from China. I was looking for something that would do the function but do not have enough electrical knowledge about amps and stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I would guess the cutouts open and shut pretty quick. Canít just use the switches that came with to cutouts?
John. you are right. That is what I was going to do. Just live with it. You are a logical thinker looking at options and I appreciate that. After some more thought, I think that the installed cutouts are a cool thing I would like to have. But I think that I would like the device to either be fully closed (Normal sound), or "Bad *ss" open (Loud sound). Unless there is a simple method of getting it done, I will more than likely leave it as is tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzer454 View Post
Here's what I would try. Get a one touch control module.

I couldn't find the user manual so I'm not sure how you go about adjusting the current limit, but I can see in some of the pictures that there appears to be a couple of adjusting screws on the side. The other thing that's not immediately obvious to me is how the switch works. The switch in the schematic is drawn very poorly and I can't tell if it's suppose to be a momentary switch or a latching switch. I would try your momentary switch first and see if it works. If the motor doesn't keep running until it is fully open or closed then try holding the button down and see if the module will cut power to the motor once the cutout is fully opened or closed.
This is worth looking into. Thanks!


How does a window motor/switch work? Does it use reversing the power (+ becomes - to go the other way?) The window switch reverses polarity to reverse the window motor?
This is one of my character defects; obsessing about stuff when I should be focusing on projects better suited for getting my car on the road. I pretty much decided that I was just going to leave it with the original rocker, but It is good to broaden my knowledge and learn about more stuff. If you guys had something that you had come up with was the reason why I posted. But no biggie if it just stays with the rocker switch, really.

Brett.......

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Last edited by Brettallen59; Apr 17th, 19 at 12:35 AM.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 09:19 AM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

The simplest power window just utilizes a momentary DPDT rocker switch that applies voltage directly to the window motor. The rocker switch controls the polarity of the motor making it go up or down. In this case the motor will have some kind of protection to prevent it from burning up if the the switch remains pressed long after the window reaches its stopping point.

An automatic power window will have a control module that consists of an H-bridge or a set of relays that can apply the required polarity to the motor. This module will usually have some kind of current sensing circuit that can stop voltage being applied to the motor when it senses a current that is greater than some predefined threshold. The motor's current will go up when the motor has to work harder, as it does when it reaches the stopping point when the window is all the way up or down. The rocker switch for an automatic power window doesn't need to be a high current switch since it doesn't supply power directly to the motor but rather it's just being used to command the control module which generally only requires a few milliamps.

The solution I provided will probably need some tweaking to get it to work right so if you don't feel comfortable working with electronics then I would stick with the supplied rocker switch. Although I would love to know if it works, so go for it!


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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 09:26 AM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

the car window switch is a 2 position switch such as used on a snow plow to raise and lower the blade . you can stop it by letting go of the switch.
just my suggestion. by the wiring harness and use the toggle switch that comes with it. I just timed my QTP cut outs 8 seconds to open and 8 seconds to close with the toggle switch that came with it
if you are in that big of a hurry you should have left 5 minutes earlier
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 12:48 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

Brett...

I'm running DMH cutouts... looks like the identical motor drive. These are basically made to order, CNC process. Had them on almost 3 years... love them. Amazing how well they seal. I have a single rocker switch and I can open them to any degree of loudness I want. Sometimes you don't want it all LOL. Releasing the switch stops the power at any angle.



Had to do a little custom welding to ensure that they weren't hitting anything. Added that little 45 degree curve in the end and that solved all the problems. The 3" PYPES system has a cutout option, but no matter how the cutout was rotated, it either hit or was hanging down too low.

I emailed you a video clip just for kicks.

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Apr 17th, 19, 07:19 PM
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Re: Electric Cut Outs Switch Delay Timer Help

I suspect that the as seen on tv controller only works on tv. Not that it canít but in this case it doesnít.

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