'67 Camaro no start - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 06, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ben
 
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'67 Camaro no start

Looking for thoughts and ideas-

The car is a 1967 Camaro (Base) V8. It has a Mallory Unilite System on it. I just removed the engine to paint it, and re-installed everything.

I changed the starter to a high output/gear reduction type. When I removed the stock starter, there was the main cable from the battery, Pink from the ignition switch, and yellow from the positive side of the coil. The new starter only has the main post, and a provision for one smaller wire. I was told the yellow wire from the coil is for extra power during cold starting, and that I could delete it. So I did.

I also put on a high output 1 wire alternator. I kept the main battery wire, and just transferred it to the new unit. I wanted the generator light, so I ran a wire from the main power post to the internal regulator on the alt, and then to the brown wire that lights the "gen" light.

Continuous crank, but no start. So I checked power to the coil, positive side lights up my test light dimly. I ran a jumper from the pos battery directly to the positive coil-and got a bright test light on both the positive AND negative side of the coil. I also got the gen light to come on. No Start, and the coil got warm to the touch. So, I disconnected everything (including the battery) and came in here to type this.

I f'ed something up when I put the new electrical on, and I'm not an electrician. Any ideas? Can anyone give me a thought on what is wired wrong?

Ben Wornall
1967 Camaro Sport Coupe
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 06, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Ben
 
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Hmmmmm...doing a little searching, and it seems that the yellow wire from the solenoid provides power to the coil during crank. Maybe this is the issue. So, how would I wire the yellow onto the starter-both the pink and yellow to the same small terminal?

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 06, 09:58 PM
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Since you have the Mallory Unilite distributor, do you have a direct 12v source coming from the ignition switch to the positive side of the coil? Since your test light was dim, that leads me to believe you are not getting the full 12 volts to the coil.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 06, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Ben
 
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

The more I'm looking at it, the more I agree Dave. The positive side of the coil has 3 wires connected to it; the yellow wire that used to go to the starter (disconnected-mini starter), Red wire that goes to the distributor, and the white/orange/purple (cloth?) from the original harness. None of that changed, which is what makes it wierd...

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 06, 07:57 AM
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

2 things on this.

1: I believe (but some here have disagreed) That the 67 ignition switch only supply's power to the coil in RUN, not start, and without the yellow wire, the car won't fire.

2: The Unilite REQUIRES the resister wire, and fll 12 volts may fry it.





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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 06, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Jim-the yellow wire is an interesting point, I'm still digging through that. The only info I have found is that other people have installed the same type starter and left the yellow wire unhooked/in the loom with no ill effects. I'm going to check if the coil is getting power in the "start" position as well tonight. Any thoughts as to where I would pick that power up? Common thought in the archives is that running that yellow wire to the starter will create an "always cranking" condition in the starter.

On the coil. According to Mallory Tech, the Unilite is not happy with the new high output alternator. I am to check the module to see if I fried it (probably). If so, I will replace the module, and remove the resistor wire from the coil, and replace it in the loom with a 12 gauge wire. I will run that 12 gauge wire into a Mallory Ballast Resistor-and on to the coil/distributor.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 06, 12:21 PM
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

The question is....Do you need the full 12 volts to run the coil? I'm not sure if the Mallory Unilite module requires the full 12 volts. There was a post on this subject recently. Some coils need the full 12 volts and some will work without the full 12 volts via the resistor wire, which drops the voltage down to 8 volts. On the OE points set up the resistor wire was needed to lower the voltage down to 8 volts to prevent the points from burning out prematurely. At start up all coils require a full 12 volts to fire. After the engine starts, the ignition switch then directs the current through the resistor wire to the coil.
I agree with Jim that without the yellow wire, the coil will not fire when the key is in the start position. Another possibility is that there might be a poor ground somewhere along the line.

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 06, 01:05 PM
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

on the yellow wire, I'm trying to remember back 25 years to my 67... it's foggy... but my memory is that you have to have the "yellow" wire. I've read posts here about 67's that crank and crank, and maybe try to fire the instant you let go of the key... motors still spinning when key goes to run and energizes the coil.
The yellow wire gets it's power (in an OEM starter) from the "load side" of the solenoid. In an OEM starter, this is the same point electrically as the "pin" on the solenoid that attaches to the starter motor lug. Don't know if this connection between the motor and the solenoid exists on a mini starer, if it does, that's where to put your yellow wire.

Or it could be that you have power to the coil (and the unilite module) with the key in start, and my memory is all wet.

As for voltage and coils, a coil is just a transfomer. Any and every coil will operate at any input voltage, but the output voltage is a multiple of the input, so the more in, the more spark out.

An electronic ignition module is a different story all together. It is a solid state (transister) switch, and is designed to run at a certain voltage, too little, it won't work right or not at all, too much, it goes poof in a heartbeat.

If your coil gets hot, you have current flow, therefore you have a good ground.





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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 06, 03:56 PM Thread Starter
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Ben
 
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Well, I figured it out...sort of. I put the original alternator back on the car, and it fires/runs great. The high output alternator was causing the Unilite to throw up.

I am using the resistor wire from the original harness-and I think the HO Alt was overpowering it. My next move will be to trace the resistor wire back to the main harness-and replace it with standard 12 gauge wire. I will then run a Mallory Ballast Resistor before the coil (this was Mallory Tech's answer).

I drove it today, and all is good. I have a leak from the rear of the new oil pan, so I'll need to drop that off and replace the gaskets. Once I get the ignition lined out, and fix that leak-the project is done (for now).

Thanks for all the ideas-we'll see if we can solve the Alt. issue.

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1967 Camaro Sport Coupe
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 06, 08:08 PM
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Thanks for letting us know the problem was solved. I am always glad to hear the final result.
I have a question regarding the ballast resistor. What will the voltage be to the coil after the ballast resistor is installed? Why not leave the resistor wire in place instead of using a 12 ga. wire with the ballast resistor? Wouldn't it be the same result?

67 RS Camaro 327/ 350 Holley 650cfm > Edelbrock Performer Intake > Pertronix Ignition > Accel Super Stock Coil and Wires > Hedman Hedders > Hotchkis Performance Springs > 15" Rallys all around


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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Feb 26th, 06, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Ben
 
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Re: '67 Camaro no start

Don't know, Dave. I suppose I can check that all out whenI start to put it together. Mallory reccomended removing the factory resistor wire. I suppose they could be run in series. I'll measure poe=wer several different ways when I get all the pieces...

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