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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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starting problems

having some starting problems with my 68 camaro. Have replaced the battery, battery cables, and starter but still getting a very slow turn over. Voltage on battery is 12.9, but drops down in the 10v range while cranking. I have traced wiring, but so far have not found any bad connections. Seems to be worse on a warm engine vs. cold engine. i am not running headers, and heat shield still in place on starter. When I replaced starter with a rebuilt one, seemed to help for a few starts, but now right back to square one. Even when I put a booster box on with the battery still get a slow turn over. I am thinking I have a bad starter, but just wanted to get some opinions before I pull if off. Thanks and merry Christmas to all.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 05:33 AM
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Re: starting problems

I think you may have gotten a bad starter. I buy the NAPA rebuilts, and my first one came bad right out of the box. Second lasted up until a month before warranty ran out.

What I remember was the dang starter was so hot after cranking, and real slow to turn over.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 05:55 AM
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Re: starting problems

I'm thinking you need to check your timing. Sounds like you got WAY too much advance dailed in. Before you just twist the distributor back, take the cap off and make sure both the vacaum and mechanical advance move smoothly.





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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: starting problems

timing is on the button.....but thanks
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 07:47 AM
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Re: starting problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentrx1 View Post
timing is on the button.....but thanks
hmmmm, gonna be difficult, huh?

Humor me... Mark where the distrubutor is now, loosen the clamp, push the vac can toward the firewall 1 inch, tighten the clamp and crank it over. If I'm wrong, you can just put it back to your mark and call me an idiot.

(note: I am not wrong.)





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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: starting problems

I will follow your advice and check it out. It was rebuilt about a year ago and I checked it about a month ago just for the heck of it. Was 8 degree with vac advance plugged and around 26 degree max advance as I recall. I changed nothing nor loosened anything as it was running fine with no spark knock. Thus my comment of being right on. Perhaps it has loosened or something thou----I will try your suggestion later this week once I get past all the Christmas running. Thanks for your input!
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 11:46 AM
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Re: starting problems

When the condition exists,you could try grounding the coil wire.If the engine cranks normally,ignition advance is most likely the cause.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 11:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: starting problems

please explain your response further.....not sure how to do what you suggested.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 25th, 06, 12:16 PM
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Re: starting problems

Quote:
Seems to be worse on a warm engine vs. cold engine
Check out Jim above 1st...
U mention rebuilt starter...
When starters are Normally rebuilt, thearmitures are turned down and solder jionts checked for resistance...cold...
Starters can generate a lot of heat, over time the solder joints on the armiture break down causing 'dry joints'. They test ok cold, but warm/hot they are not connecting well....

The issue of installing heat sheilds for a starter that has a problem is 'after the event'....the heat shield just helps to prevent a starter that already has bad solder joints for getting hot enough for hard starting....
IF u think about it, to get enough heat off heaDders what ever, thru the starter case, across the air in the starter moter then into the armiture to cause the solder joints to sofen and have dry joints is impossible.
These dry joints are caused from long term usage....
A starter moter, draws a heap of current/energy, the intail current draw for a split second is up around the 900 ams, then say the car is slow to start, the continous high (normal) current drawn, cause things to get hot...
Over many yrs the solder joints break down.

I had this problem many yrs ago, fortunatly I have a brother inlaw in hi end Automotive/indusrial/marine electrics.
We replaced bearings /bushes etc but still did it
He set up hoist tools, started the car, drove it quite a ways, hit the hoist droped the started , dismantled and checked the joints, many where bad, when it cooled they, except 2 where ok.
He heated the armiture in a oven, again they showed bad.
He resoldered with a hi temp solder, turned the armiture down...
15 yrs on I have never had a problem again.

My Spelling is not incorrect...it is creative

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 26th, 06, 09:36 PM
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Re: starting problems

I would go with the starter first. mine did the same thing about 6 months after I bought it . I even changed the timing gears and chain. It would hardly turn over at all when hot. turned out it was the starter all along. when the starter gets hot, bushing inside expand and lets the armature bind up
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 27th, 06, 05:52 AM
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Re: starting problems

The battery cables should be, at least, 1 AWG. Most cheap shelf cables are 4 AWG.

The higher the number AWG (American Wire Gauge), the smaller the wire diameter, the less current handling capability.

Ten volts during cranking is getting to the minimum, 9.5 volts is min.

Try JimM's suggestion first, reduce initial timing and crank. If better, then too much timing is the problem.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 28th, 06, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: starting problems

changing timing had no effect...but changing the starter did! all is cranking great now. thanks for the help
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 29th, 06, 06:06 AM
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Re: starting problems

Any bets as to how long this starter will last?

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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 31st, 06, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: starting problems

no bets.....but lots of hope. so far it is spinning the motor great.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Dec 31st, 06, 06:10 PM
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Re: starting problems

I dont buy rebuilt starters anymore and I think that has gotten to be the case with alot of the autozoneo'reillyadvancednapa guys because they all have new and rebuilt starters availiable for most stuff, at least that has been my experience lately.I own a construction company with 5 trucks on the road daily and we go through starters more than your average bear. We have had much better use out of the new stuff vs. rebuilt
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