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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

I have two questions about my 69 camaro electrical system. I read the electrical basics page on external regulated system and my cars regulator doesn't match. With the key off its the same but with the key on engine off the numbers are as follows.

number 1 blue 4.24v
number 2 white .002v
number 3 orange 12.74v
number 4 brown 4.26v

alt blue 4.16v

key on engine not running should read
alt blue 10.5v

4th term on reg, 12v
no other changes

I have put all new wiring in the car and changed the points to the crane electronic conversion and it doesn't run very good. I'm thinking it could be electrical. The other question is on the batt + side of the coil with the engine running it reads 13 to 14 volts. I was told it should read 12 volts only when the car is starting and 9 volts when car is running. I hope someone could tell me if that is correct and what the problem could be with the regulator. Thanks, Chris

Last edited by zarwelder; Jan 13th, 07 at 02:32 PM.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 02:02 PM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

As far as the batt side of coil, this is true if your running a point distributor. Not sure what year car your running but the 67/68 have ballast resistors to drop the voltage after startup to save wear on the points. The 69 has a resistive wire to do the same. If your running a electronic ignition, most require the full 12V to work properly. Most guys run a seperate 12V line from the fuse panel that is switched on/off with the key.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 03:23 PM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
I have two questions about my 69 camaro electrical system. I read the electrical basics page on external regulated system and my cars regulator doesn't match. With the key off its the same but with the key on engine off the numbers are as follows.

number 1 blue 4.24v
number 2 white .002v
number 3 orange 12.74v
number 4 brown 4.26v
Those numbers are about correct. 1 and 4 are a little on the higher side, but if the charging system is working and battery is not being drained while the car is parked, I wouldn't worry about it. To test the charging system, check the voltage, at the battery, with the car running at a fast idle, should be 14-14.5 volts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
I have put all new wiring in the car and changed the points to the crane electronic conversion and it doesn't run very good. I'm thinking it could be electrical. The other question is on the batt + side of the coil with the engine running it reads 13 to 14 volts. I was told it should read 12 volts only when the car is starting and 9 volts when car is running. I hope someone could tell me if that is correct and what the problem could be with the regulator. Thanks, Chris [/B][/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
I am not familer with the Crane electronic conversion, but most electronic ignition systems require full system voltage, which is 14 or so with the engine running.

Greg U

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

According to what I have read with key on not running #1 terminal (blue) should be 10.5v and #4 (brown) should be 12v, is this correct. How do you check to see if you have a good ground with a volt meter? Thanks
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 04:45 PM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
According to what I have read with key on not running #1 terminal (blue) should be 10.5v
What kind of regulator are you using? (mechanical or electronic) See my post under the same sticky that you read. My post refers to a mechanical regulator, Jim's was a electronic. The difference could be the type of regulator, but I don't know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder
and #4 (brown) should be 12v, is this correct.
Correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder
How do you check to see if you have a good ground with a volt meter? Thanks
What are you testing. If for the regulator, make sure you have the small wire from the battey to the fender.

Greg U

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

I'm testing the voltage from the regulator. I do have the wire to the fender. It just seems low from what I have read and the coil positive has the resistor wire but with the car running its at 14 volts and not the 9v that it should be. I don't know if the regulator has something to do with that.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 09:45 PM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
I'm testing the voltage from the regulator. I do have the wire to the fender. It just seems low from what I have read
From the above (KOEO = key on engine off and KOER = key on engine running).
Blue wire F or #1 terminal (field) - KOEO = #4 slight voltage, KOER = 9-12V typically
White wire #2 terminal (sense) - KOEO = 0V, KOER = >3.2V
Red wire #3 terminal (Battery) - KOEO = 12V, KOER = 12V
Brown wire #4 terminal (light) - KOEO = F slight voltage, KOER = 12V

By 12V above I mean battery voltage, which may be 12V when engine is off but could be up to 14.5V when engine is running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder
and the coil positive has the resistor wire but with the car running its at 14 volts and not the 9v that it should be. I don't know if the regulator has something to do with that.
What does the Crane conversion require in terms of voltage?

Greg U

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 07, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

The crane conversion requires a constant 12v so I went to the ignition on the fuse panel. The problem I'm having is the car will run warm up and die you check the spark and there's very little to no spark. It did the same thing with the points in the car that's when I put the cane ignition in to see if that was the problem. After reading the charging system page on external regulators that's when I noticed my cars readings where much lower at the regulator. How do you know if its the regulator that's bad and could that be the problem? Thanks for your time
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 06:15 AM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

As undee said, those numbers were taken off my car, using an original 61 amp alternator, wells vr715 electronic regulator, and fully functional charging system including working GEN light. Your results may vary.

The purpose of posting those readings was to provide some troubleshooting guidelines to determine the cause of "MY CAR ISN'T CHARGING."

First things first tho... If you read ~14 volts at the batery KOER, AND you battery doesn't go dead while while sitting, AND your gen light works properly, THEN your charging system is fine.





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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 08:26 AM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
The crane conversion requires a constant 12v so I went to the ignition on the fuse panel. The problem I'm having is the car will run warm up and die you check the spark and there's very little to no spark. It did the same thing with the points in the car that's when I put the cane ignition in to see if that was the problem.
Your problem has nothing to do with the charging system. Since you state that you have had this problem with both ignition systems, is there any ignition parts that you used with both systems, coil? Thats what I would look at first.

Greg U

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

I'm using the original GM regulator. I don't have the GEN light I have the center console with the amp gauge.

Should the regulator be grounded its rubber mounted? When I put a ground strap on it the amp gauge jumps around and the regulator makes a buzzing sound.

I have used 3 different coils with the same results. What could be the reason that the + side of the coil is putting out 14v with the engine running?

I will have to check the volts with KOER to see if its putting out the 14 volts. After running the car and it dies its starts hard.

I don't know if after sitting the battery dies after working on it I disconnect it (I will check that). Thanks
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 10:13 AM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

The regulator should be grounded. My understanding is that 67-68 rubber mount the regulator in wells nuts AND have a ground wire. 69's solid mount the regulator, or at least that's what I've been told.

The buzzing with a gound wire connected concerns me.

Another thing I've have experience with, if the regulator is not grounded, it will charge "full bore" all the time. When I had this problem, I would read 18 volts at the battery. This could tie into your problem... if the ignition resister wire was in place AND the system voltage was 18, 14 at the coil + might make sense. That high a voltage at the coil could cause it to overheat and fail hot.

methinks more troubleshooting is in order here, not sure what's going on.





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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 14th, 07, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

The yellow wire from the starter to the coil should it be 12 volts at the starter after the car is running? I was told its just 12V to start the car and after it starts goes to 0 volts. Is this correct?
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Jan 15th, 07, 02:40 PM
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Re: Need Help,Regulator and Coil problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder View Post
The yellow wire from the starter to the coil should it be 12 volts at the starter after the car is running? I was told its just 12V to start the car and after it starts goes to 0 volts. Is this correct?
Depends on how you test it. With everything hooked up, yes it will still show 12v (a little less with the resistor wire) because power is being supplyed from the resistor wire. When the car is cranking power is being supplied from the starter. If you disconnect the yellow wire from coil, the yellow wire will only have power when the starter is cranking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zarwelder
The crane conversion requires a constant 12v so I went to the ignition on the fuse panel. The problem I'm having is the car will run warm up and die you check the spark and there's very little to no spark. It did the same thing with the points in the car that's when I put the cane ignition in to see if that was the problem.
You may want to disconnect the yellow and resistor wire from the ignition and run a wire from the battery to your ignition (with a inline fuse close to the battery). If the problem goes away, then you have a wiring problem, if you still have it, then its ignition or something else.

Greg U

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