short water pump vs long water pump - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2001 General Tech questions from 2001
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 04:30 AM Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me the advantages to a small water pump to a long style water pump for a small block? I am swapping a 383 stroker motor in for my 350 and currently I have a long style water pump and it has a big spacer on it for the fan so it sits good in the shroud. I am afraid if I use a short style one I may have to use a ridiculous looking spacer to fill the void. Any comments would be appreciated.
thanks
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 05:09 AM
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Mark,

You may want to consider an electric fan. I am putting a 383 in my '68 and I think that is the route I am going to take. The flex fan burns up a little HP, not much, but it also cleans up the engine compartment a little, IMO.

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Kevin

68 Camaro SS - In Resto
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 05:18 AM
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I assume since you have a long water pump you have your alternator on the passenger side of your engine. This set up is for the 69 and later models. The short water pump with the alternator on the drvers side is for pre '69 models.

If not, you have do like I did. I have a 67 and I had everything for the pre 69 setup but changed to a long water pump so, I then modefied my alternator braket (hooks up to drivers side) so that it would stick further out and line up with the pulleys.

Some day, with $$ and time I will get March 1 pulleys and brakets and move my alternator to the passenger side and rewire to passanger side as well.

Hope this helps
Tony

------------------
obnoxious 67 camaro under construction. TH350/383 stroker w/ aluminum Edlebroc RPM heads,cam, and carb.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 05:21 AM
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Stay with your long pump... Otherwise you have to get all new hardware to mount your alt, power steering, ac etc... The 383 will sit right where your 350 does so everything is reusable...
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the replys one question. Does anyone make an aluminum or chrome long water pump?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 08:27 AM
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Stewart makes a good aluminum one. I have that one. There are many to chose from. Others may chime in with their experiences and opinions, too.

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 10:28 AM
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I have a 68 with a 383 and use the short wp / drivers side setup. I do not need any spacers. With a long wp setup the fan would technically be too far inside the shroud even without a spacer if you use a stock type clutch fan.

It's not a huge deal but the fan should stick out of the shroud about 1/2" - they pull the most air this way. It might be worth considering if you are putting in a motor that generates more heat than the old one. Higher stall speeds will generate more heat too.

BTW - my stock 7 blade clutch fan keeps my 450 HP 383 plenty cool, even in the heat.

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68 Camaro, 383 small block with TH350 trans. 12.2's and never trailered.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 10:45 AM
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Eric,

The physical size and dimensions of the 350 and 383 are the same. It would not be cost effective to switch to a short pump and change all the acc's and if there is a spacer already used to place the fan into the shroud then changing to a short pump would just require more spacer...

The thing to remember is after all these years there are few cars with the same mounts and block placement varies... Your '68 is different from Marks '67...
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 07:45 PM
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Really no advantage other than many short after market pumps have a boss to install a bolt that can be butted up against the timing cover to keep the cover from flexing , especially when used in conjunction with a cam button. The short pump will require different pulleys and brackets. I run the short pumps because I have no accessory holes in my heads and my Cross ram (Edelbrock SY1)is too tall to accept the 69 and later style alternator brackets. My alternator is the low mount style, where a power steering pump would normally mount. Moroso makes spacers to adapt a short pump to a long pump application. I run a flex-a lite electric fan. Won't ever run a clutch fan again. Had a clutch stick on a big block and at about 5,000 rpm the fan came off and went into the 4 core radiator, thank goodness it spared my original cowl hood. My 302s and 332s turn much higher rpm than that big block ever will see. I'll stick with flex or electric fans now.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 15th, 01, 07:51 PM
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By spacer are you referring to the fan spacer or I have seen short water pumps with spacers between them and the block ,so they work in place of a long water pump. A "long" water pump has much larger bearings etc. and is supposed to be much more durable than a "short" pump.

------------------
69 Camaro Z28 "clone" - 327 AT
"461" camel back heads,
edelbrock, hooker, ultradyne,
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700R4 TPI transmission
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 05:35 AM
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The spacers go between the pump and the block to space the short pump out like a long pump. They do make some heavy duty aftermarket short pumps currently. The problem with the short pumps is you have to make sure which of the two bolt patterns you need, some havve both bolt patterns in the hub, and which size pilot is on the hub so your pulley will fit. Also the late 80s Corvette aluminum pumps made by Stewart for GM are reverse flow for use with serpentine belts, make sure you don't buy one of these unless you need the reverse flow. I've got one I'll probably sell for that reason.

I see you're running 461 heads. I run those on a 332 I've built. I really like them for the price. Have you been happy with yours?
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 09:50 AM
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SY1,
I have heard good things about these heads as far as OEM's are concerned. I am not impressed with the cam that I have though. What are you using for a cam ?? Tom
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 16th, 01, 07:06 PM
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Tom,
I'm running the -140 302 service package cam. Using 1.6 rockers it comes out to .526"intake & .539"exhaust. Advertised duration (.015"camlift) is 304 intake, 312 exhaust. It works great with steep gears in the 332 small journal I have. GM says you should run at least 12:1 compression with it because of the overlap of the valve timing. So I'm using the TRW forged 12.15:1 L22llAF pistons. I really didn't build it for streetability. I just put together a lot of the old nostalgia type pieces I had and I'm real happy with it. Finished it off with the Edelbrock Smokey ram, just to make sure it wasn't real streetable I guess! Actually I love the design that Yunick came up with on that intake, larger plenum than most tunnel rams, straight long runner crossram, unlike the GM crossram with the bent leg runners. And it is designed to be used with a single carb. Pretty neat piece, but it likes mid to high rpm, so I built the motor with that consideration. I don't think you'd like this cam with the auto unless you're running a pretty loose converter. Otherwise it would work great for you 327.

Yes I really like these heads too. Very affordable. I stuck a set of SIS stainless race-flo swirl polished valves, pocket ported and gasket matched the ports, screw in studs and guide plates and I probably got less into them than would cost me for one bare aftermarket casting. They are a good piece.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old Oct 18th, 01, 05:45 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DjD:
Eric,

The physical size and dimensions of the 350 and 383 are the same. It would not be cost effective to switch to a short pump and change all the acc's and if there is a spacer already used to place the fan into the shroud then changing to a short pump would just require more spacer...

The thing to remember is after all these years there are few cars with the same mounts and block placement varies... Your '68 is different from Marks '67...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My main point is to be conscious of where the fan is in relation to the shroud. It will make a difference in how the motor cools. More HP = more heat. A fan that is too far in will not pull as much air as one that is placed correctly.

Good point Dennis - I suppose switching long to short w/p would be like trying to reinvent the wheel.
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