1969 indy pace car - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Mike
 
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Hey guys, I have a 69 Z11 that I've had for a number of years, I don't drive it much as I have other toys to play with. My wife has nagged for ever to sell as it usualy sets in the garage. I have noticed that when you find one for sale they don't seem to be going for much more money than any other real nice condition camaro, and being a matching number car doesn't seem to bring up the value. Why? maybe I should just swap the motor and paint it black and drive it like a wild man, it appears that the value wont change.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 12:55 PM
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I don't know where you've been looking, but all the 69' Z11 pace cars I've seen have been in the 20-30K range. I saw a stripped out shell on this website for $3200.00! For $3200.00, you basically get the trim tag. The BB 69' pacers are already in the 30's, so maybe you just need to look around more. They are much more valuable than the regular coupes at this point......KZ

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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 02:37 PM
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I think John has touched on some valid points but let's look at it in a different light...

Using percentages there are 243085 total camaros in 69. 17,572 of those are convertibles excluding the 3,675 pace cars. Of that there are 36,309 SS cars excluding pace cars. There were a few more RS cars so we will use the SS numbers for this math problem. Figure out what percentage of camaros are SS cars and apply that number to the total convertibles and pace cars. You should find that there are (based on percentages) about 1/2 as many SS and RS convertibles as pace cars. That means ecen less RSSS ragtops. Since we don't know exact numbers percentages is the pest way I've found to guess-ta-mate... The color and stickers and the mystic of the Indy 500 has done well for the car... Disclamer: I am kinda groggy from the flu (and my head hurts real bad! ) so if someone wants to do the math and post it we'd have more factual guesses to go by!!

Chevy is notorious for this I don't recall what years but some of the LS1 cars they made less Z28 6speeds than they did SS 6 speeds...




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...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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djd, I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that there are less rs/ss convertables than pace cars so the only thing that makes a Z11 special is the sticker on the side of it?
3675 out of 248,000 is pretty slim odds. But to answer my question than, I could paint the car any color I want and its going to have the same value becouse its always going to be a rs/ss ragtop?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 04:43 PM
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speedy-z, following Dennis's logic, you could paint your Z11 black and it would be worth more than a Z11. I'm not sure about that....... He's saying that there are a fewer percentage of SS convertibles than the number of Z11s built.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 05:12 PM
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Speedy, What are you looking to sell it for? I might have some friends that would be interested. Kevin

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 08:19 PM
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Give a price.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 14th, 01, 08:20 PM
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Using 15% (it's less) of all camaros are SS optioned. You can assume 15% of the 17,000 convertibles have the SS option. That would be 2,550 SS convertibles. Only part of which are going to be RSSS cars... So we can guess-ta-mate almost 2 times more pace cars than RSSS ragtops. It works the same for the RS convertible. A car like mine with the fiber option is gonna be even more rare!! Too bad it's not documented or matching numbers... Even so the mystic isn't there to the buyer...

Don't go repainting your Z11. Just feel lucky that mystic has a role in the value of your car...

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...Dennis
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 01:41 AM
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Following that logic the 20,302 Z28's should be worth just slightly more than the an SS (either coupe or convertible), and certainly a lot less than a convertible SS. Theres a lot to be said for the "mystic" quality of certain options. Apparently the "mystic" 302 ci engine is worth about 15 grand. No one should be more thankful for certain options than the owners of the 50,000 current 69 Z28s.


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 05:06 AM
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Dennis addressed rarity. Not to be confused with desirability. Rarity only enhances value if it's already desirable. A 6cyl with fiber optics and radio delete, would probably be one of 243,000. That would not make it particularly valuable.
I think one thing that hurts the Z11 is the fact that most people do not like the color combination. (myself included)
Having said that, I'm still kicking myself for walking away from a Z11 L78 (motor missing, but lots of clues, including numbers match M22) just because the "correct date coded" block turned out to be a May motor, instead of a March motor for a March car!
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 15th, 01, 07:31 PM
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I am trying to stop a project same as this. Here in Ca there is a clothing company called Mussimo. The owner of this company has a Z-11 # match that he has in getting restored at a shop near a friends place. He likes Black cars and has a few "Other" verts. All Black, so guess what color is going on this Z-11. I HATE it!!!!!
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old Nov 16th, 01, 12:21 AM
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Mark C, are you sure there only 50 odd thousand 69 Z28's out there??? In my neck of the woods, every Camaro that comes along is an "SS". Yes of course it's real, look at the emblems, yeah right!!!

Good point I have to say, rarity and collectible value are two entirely different categories. A 6cyl, with unusually rare options should, and in my book would be a very desirable vehicle for the collector. But, it would more than likely be shunned for a supposed "real" SS/Z28 or whatever. Due to my business interests I have been an outsider looking in, have been for a long time now, and have to say, once a desirable car is gone it is basically lost forever. I have a Pace Car, and I love it! Everything about it, especially the colours. They are a unique piece of American motoring history, the sooner everyone realises the more cars which get butchered, the less real cars will remain. That is a damned shame. Why a 69 Pace Car would at times struggle, to keep up in the price stakes with similar optioned models is beyond me. Colour perhaps, the mytique of a Z28 is awe inspiring for sure, bit doesn't a pace car in the flesh look totally wicked????????

Unfortunately, a lot of the piracy of the cars and their relevant parts is $$$$ driven. You can never stamp that out, I've been watching it happen for 16 years and it never ceases to amaze me that it still goes on.
Let's keep the cars for what they are/were!!
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