COPO ON EBAY!!!! - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 12th, 01, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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What do you think the value of a #1 condition concours 1969 copo camaro would be worth? Everything matches! (engine motor trans) Just looking for some input. Thanks


[This message has been edited by ZMANIAC (edited 12-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ZMANIAC (edited 12-13-2001).]
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 03:10 AM
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As long as everything is original and VIN # matching then it should be in the $45-$65K range. The wording in the auction never says the engine matches the VIN, just that it is a correct MN engine. The engine date and transmission date are pretty far apart, but that may not mean much as long as there is some documentation like p-o-p to verify it. That's just my opinion though.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 07:13 AM
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Jeff, that trans code of May 69 is really off the build of the car, mid oct 69. The engine is not too far off. The rear is right on.

I find it hard to believe the trans is orig, but like you say, if the docs prove it... I did not see any mention about any docs though.

Kevin

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 08:55 AM
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I noticed that too, but my trans is 3 months early as well and it matches the p-o-p. I wonder if the VIN # corresponds to the Aug/Sep time frame for the car's build. I've seen COPO's where the rear is actually dated after the trim tag's build date and it matches the p-o-p so COPO's are tricky.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 09:45 AM
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Jeff, the VIN puts the build date to Mid October 1969 10B or 10C. The rear is late Sept., so it's right in line. The trans is 6 months prior, a little suspect. The engine is Aug. With no docs it's a crap shoot.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 11:10 AM
Jeremiah
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I sold a 34,000 original mile 69 Z/28 and the rear end was slightly after the build date of the trim tag. The POP also confirmed this to be original. The car was an early built Dec. 68. We are finding cars every day that break the rules. You have to keep an open mind when researching these cars. Anything could have and generally did happen from the factory. Jeremiah.
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 11:19 AM
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Currently have an original 38,000 mile Z28, First week in Dec built.12A but rear end code is 12 27 G2 ,car has not been on the road since '75. I doubt that the rear end was replaced with one that close, unless service did it for som reason. As for this car on e-bay it does not mention docs, yet most that post replies on this site say if you are going to spend that much money on a car it has to have docs. Why is this car different? Because the guy says Reggie owned it?
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 12:02 PM
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Hey Jeremiah - thanks for the story. I have had a car questioned before that would have been "wrong" if I were not saved by the POP. The more we learn about these cars, the more we have to learn, huh??
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 12:14 PM
 
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I have one with an odd stamp, my car is documented to have an M-22 trans. The trans that is in the car has the right build date but the serial number ends in 6 and the car ends in 9. What are the odds that that the original went bad and was replaced with one built 3 units before?
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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The cowl tag is NOR155017,trim711,61F paint date of 11A,and X44D80, So it is a late car. What do you think???
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 01:02 PM
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I realize that the COPO's were special order cars so that's why the dates could be all over the place. They built the engines and rears in batches for those cars. The guys at CRG will be able to tell us how good the numbers look. November car with May trans, Aug engine and Sep rear is pretty spread out though. As for you guys with the Dec cars, a lot of early Dec cars were being built when the holidays hit and they could have sat for a couple of weeks before having the components put in so that's why you could see a late Dec rear in a 12A car. We learn something new all the time and I'm sure John Z will have something to add. Personally, I've heard of a lot of questionable stuff that Reggie has had so his name doesn't carry any weight if you ask me.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 02:10 PM
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You have to keep in mind that the "build date" on the cowl tag is NOT the date the car came off the line - it's the date (or, more accurately, the week) during which the raw body was welded together in the Body Shop, the first step in the Fisher Body plant, before the body ever got to the Fisher Paint Shop, the Fisher Trim Shop, or to Chevrolet. Under normal circumstances, it took about three days from that point before the body got to Chevrolet, and another day or so after that before the engine/chassis parts were pulled and went on the line, and another day before the car actually drove off the end of the line. That's why there's really nothing unusual about Chevrolet-installed parts being dated after the "build week" code on the cowl tag. For example, a 10B car could be in the Body Shop on Thursday or Friday and not have dated chassis components installed until the following Tuesday or Wednesday, which would be "10C" in Chevrolet terms.

On this particular car, the 6-month spread on the trans looks flaky, IMO.

MY396, in your case, if the trans was found to be bad, it wouldn't have been noticed until Roll Test, and Final Repair would have gotten another one from stock (not from another car) to replace it, and would have hand-stamped the VIN derivative, most likely one digit at a time (and could have stamped the last digit upside-down). If it's the same trans that was installed originally on the Engine Dress Line, the VIN derivative stamp would be identical to the one on the engine, as the same guy stamped both numbers with a gang-stamp right after the transmission was bolted to the engine.

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[This message has been edited by JohnZ (edited 12-13-2001).]
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 02:51 PM
 
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Thanks John Z, that's what I was aiming for that the trans. was stamped wrong. Glad you verified how that could have happened!!!! Wes P.S. John Z, the transmission appears to have been stamped with a gang style holder but I do not have the block to check the number. If they were both mis-stamped would it have been let go like this?

[This message has been edited by MY396 (edited 12-13-2001).]
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 13th, 01, 05:05 PM
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I found that most date coded components outside the "norm" are usually low production. I had a 67 L78 built 7B with a 456 rear, dated April 26th. JL8 cars built 6A have late June dated rears. Some copo's were held up waiting for rear in May or June. I am sure there were inventory stock- outs throughout the year which caused date coded component anomaly.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 02:53 AM
 
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JohnZ, write a book!
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