One of these Crazy ideas I dreamed about. - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2001 General Tech questions from 2001
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Jun 2001
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I have a question and I'm gonna throw it at you guys to see what you think. Right now I have a 25lb. Tank for scubadiving, I figure I put a regulator with a huge steel braded hose going directly to the throttle body. As soon as I start a 1/4 mile I hit the regulator knob and inject a mad amount of air into the throttle body on my TPI, ala turbocharger. Would this work? What is the wrost that could happen? Could I blow my engine and would I notice any performance increase. It would work like a high pressure ram-air unit. I just dreamed about this last night and wanted to see if any of you thought it would work. Anyways please reply with an opinion. Thanks all.

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1990 Camaro IROC-Z 305 TPI.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 03:36 PM
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Eric
 
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ORION_UV - you are a TRUE gearhead !!! with a truly original idea.

I have no idea if it would work though, but I don't see any reason why it would not work either. I'd just be sure to inject your air before the first sensor in your inlet piping so you don't fool the computer and lean out the mixture.

I bet you'd have to inject an aweful lot of air to really see a difference. A 5.7L would use roughly 350 cubic inches of air per every two revolutions of the crank.

If you try it let me know if it works or not. I'll be awake at night wondering now.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I guess I'm gonna go ahead and try it. As long as I angle it right so the air pressure doesnt keep the throttle body open (its only a spring) and as long as I properly reg it with a *cough* cutoff switch *cough* incase I notice any problems sooner rather than later. I'll start off with no boost, then with a little, then with a lot to see if I notice any difference. All the air sensors are in the TPI, thats to my understanding anyways considering I dont see any before the throttle body. 350ft per 2 cranks eh? well, the tank is a 3000PSI tank and that is the output of it, so I dont want that going into my engine hence the regulator. So anyways ponder my words and reply with your own thoughts as to weither this is an interesting idea or not.

------------------
1990 Camaro IROC-Z 305 TPI.

www.geocities.com/camaromandan/home.html
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 03:56 PM
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John
 
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I often wondered about a similar possibility... what if I were to mount a small, fast spinning, electric fan with steeply pitched blades to force some air down the throat of the carb? Granted, the pressure probably wouldn't be that much, but if I could find a small fan that had some real power to it and I could seal it on the carb.... hmmmm....

I've also wondered about the possibility of using liquid nitrogen in a closed tube around the intake manifold, or lining an air intake tube, to supercool the incoming intake charge. With this idea, I imagine that sudden temp changes might cause some breakage, but if this weren't a problem.... Also, using the liquid nitro to in some way work as a brake cooling system...
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 04:47 PM
 
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If you can figure out the fuel curve issues then I think you have a winner. Under nornal driving conditions you will need a X jetting (assuming you are using a carb) and under "boost" I guess you'll need X=?. Being able to change jetting/fuel delivery is key the way I see it.

Joseph
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 05:49 PM
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Ray
 
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Boodlefoof, someone already beat you to that idea. It exists and is sold here: http://www.electricsupercharger.com/.../Autoframe.htm

"The TM 1psi Electric Supercharger
5 to 15 more horsepower* GUARANTEED for $299.00"

Not sure if it works as billed. I came across this site a long time ago, and your post reminded me of it.

But it's for smaller engines, up to 5.0 liter. The site says email to discuss options if engine is bigger than this.

Ray
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 06:02 PM Thread Starter
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No, I'm not using a carb. As I said, I'm running a 305TPI, So I'd place the nozzle just before the throttle body going into the plenum. 10-15hp at 1 PSI? I can regulate mine, now I know its not a constant thing but when I want mad boost I'd be able to do it. I'm thinking way more than 1PSI, but not ridiculously more. Anyways, I'm going to the hardware store to get the supplies, I do have a good 6 inches of snow where I live right now but the next 4 days starting sunday and well above freezing and sunny so everything will melt and I'll have a chance to really test out and see if my theory works! I'll keep you guys posted. But again dont hesitate to give your own input and precautions.

------------------
1990 Camaro IROC-Z 305 TPI.

www.geocities.com/camaromandan/home.html
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 14th, 01, 06:12 PM
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John
 
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well shucks, I should have tried to get some sort of patent on the idea when I first had it! Those bastards beat me to it.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 01, 02:10 AM
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IU wonder if you'll be able to get the volume of air before your tank is empty ???

just thinkin'
besure to let us know what you find!

hhmmmm! Iwonder if you could use that E-RAM to super charge an alcohol go cart ????

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[This message has been edited by 4 speed (edited 12-15-2001).]
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 01, 04:10 AM
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Bruno
 
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It's good thinking orion, if you find enough volume, I don't know about that variable comming from a compressed tank. You just make us all think. In a Turbo or Supercharger, the pressure is always positive as boost increases. In your case you say to connect the piping to the trottle intake to pressurize the intake manifold, what will hold the pressure to make the thing get pressurized and don't going back to the air filter when it encounter backpressure or oposition to the flow? Maybe you can make your own check valve (like a flap valve) to let the intake air or pressurized air flow only in the direction of the trottle body? That way you can close the air filter open passage which can let the pressure escape to the atmosphere. To have power increase you'll need at least 4 psi and in that region you might be safe by adding a small fuel injector at the intake to make sure you don't run Lean. There are a lot of ricers around here using a fifth injector with normally aspirated engines. It can be turned on by a pressure switch that senses when you get a pressure increase at the intake manifold. I have used this additional injector when converting to Turbo, but controlled by switch at the trottle body linkage instead of the pressure switch. Later I decided to increase the fuel delivery flow and pressure by adding another pump and a boost dependant fuel regulator. What I'm mentioning here are just ideas, it's up to you to make the R&D.
Good luck and let us know ...

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 01, 06:27 AM
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Ray
 
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I think volume is going to be one problem here like the others above have said. I'm not sure, but I think your air tank would run dry very quickly.

The key to a turbo or supercharger is the large volume of air they supply at pressure, not just the pressure.

Orench is also right that you would need something to keep the air from the tank from just going back out the air filter.

What you're attempting is almost like a nitrous system with air. But nitrous supports a lot more combustion per volume than just air. (Nitrous doesn't burn, it's just very concentrated oxygen to support burning more fuel.)

Who knows, this idea might be what evolved into the original nitrous system. They found that air wouldn't work and then found a gas that would.

Ray

[This message has been edited by 68SSConvt (edited 12-15-2001).]
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 01, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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The air in a scuba tank ijust pressurized ar around us condensed. But when it comes out the the tank at an alarming rate the air turns cold, so not only would I have a true cold air intake but also one delivering an insane amount of pressure through the throttlebody into my TPI and eventually running through the runners to the manifold. Thats my hypothesis anyways. I calculated with my tank completely full, without regulating it just turnin the valve on, I timed a good 30 seconds of full boost, ths is more than I need to run a 1/4 mile or a quick dragrace against a worthy component, ala nitrous, only on when you need it, only this 25lb tank costs $5 canadian to fil........
So in any case I head out today to make a diagram and to get the parts needed. Thanks for the support, I will let you know about the outcome.

------------------
1990 Camaro IROC-Z 305 TPI.

www.geocities.com/camaromandan/home.html
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Dec 15th, 01, 07:37 AM Thread Starter
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And as for the large volume of air it supplies, I placed a buddy 12ft. away from the nozzle and turned it on and asked him what it felt like, he said like a rocket, so again only time will tell. Right now I have to find out where my O2 sensors and MAF's are in my TPI because if they are not anywhere in the plenum, theres nothing stopping me from just mounting a spliced cable 8 ways down the runners to the fuel rail and manifold, that would be intense, but then I dont know what it would do to the function of the throttle body, my car would probrobly just keep revving, so I might need to somehow attach the boost to the throttle cable to only come on at full tilt when I have the pedal to the metal. Because with my current design it would work best only in front of the throttle body, only when it is open all the way.

------------------
1990 Camaro IROC-Z 305 TPI.

www.geocities.com/camaromandan/home.html
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