I think everyone NEEDS to see this....NOT GOOD!!! - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2001 General Tech questions from 2001
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 10th, 02, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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Joe
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Laurens, SC, USA
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I really think everyone should check this out. It is from an article from the March 2002 issue of Popular HotRodding. I have to type it out cuz my scanner died.
At first glance it might seem like a regular old clunker bill, but if you read it, I think it will apply to alot more then old cars We are going to need alot of help to stop this so if you can, pass this info to a friend. And please write to your congressman! They are trying to destroy our hobby and our freedom and something has to be done!!!
heres the article:

"Michigan Bill Threatens Project Vehicles, Daily Drivers"

A bill (S.B. 631) has been introduced in the Michigan Legislature that would prohibit hobbyists from storing damaged vehicles on private property. Under the bill, if a hobbyist fails to comply with a court order to remove the vehicle(s), he or she can be fined up to $1000 and sentenced to six months in jail!
We urge you to contact your state legislators to oppose the following bill on these accounts: It deems a damaged vehicle to be "litter" for the purpose of removal, reguardless of whether or not the vehicle is out in public view; it includes any motor vehicle that is "damaged, deteriorated, or in a condition such that the item cannot be used for the purpose it was manufactured"; it would permit citizens, as well as government officials, to seek a court order to compel hobbyists to remove project vehicles from their own property; it would allow individual to bring civil actions against hobbyists for maintaining project vehicles and to collect damages, attorney fees, and costs; it would make it difficult for hobbyists to work on collector vehicles on private property; it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the vehicle hobby and the rights of the hobbyists.
Contact your state legislators and oppose this legislation. This bill tramples on the rights of vehicle enthusiasts in Michigan and could lead to similar legislation elsewhere. If you need assistance in determining who your legislators are, please contact the Michigan Legislature's General Information line: (517)373-0170. This information can also be obtained by calling the SEMA Washington, D.C. office at (202)783-6007 or via the internet at www.enjoythedrive.com.
(end of article)

Please help and encourage your friends and family to join in. Thanks for reading this-Radio Joe-
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 12:05 AM
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Bruno
 
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That sounds something like this; https://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum2/HTML/001393.html or this https://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum2/HTML/001644.html
Thats realy no good for our hobbie.

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Our affair with Camaros is a live sentence without the possibility of parole. www.geocities.com/c68ss http://home.coqui.net/borench
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 03:03 AM
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Radio Joe that has already happen here in S.C. if someone complains about the cars they will give you notice to move them, they had some Woman come here from another state and said she was going Beautify the area. And they will not sale any more junk yard license. I can under stand in some cases but if someone keeps the cars out of the publics view either covered or behind blind fences.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 03:19 AM
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Move to Cal. You don't know what fun is. In my city you can't park any car running or not on anything but asphalt or concrete. You can't change your oil in the driveway if they want to push it. It looks like it will just get worse.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 06:08 AM
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that sucks bigtime.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 07:25 AM
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So-Far-So-Good here...I feel I'm lucky to still retain most priviledges but if this thing goes into effect it will really mess things up. The restoration shops will love it though.


Gary
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 08:11 AM
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Thats been the case here in Springfield IL for a few years now too,and it needed to be done,99 percent of the junk cars sitting in people yards are not cars you would want to have restored.There still has to be a complaint filed to initiate action though.So I would think if you had a parts car and didnt have it sitting in your front yard looking like hell you probably would be ok. I've seen cars parked on the street here for weeks with no wheels.I drove a tow truck for seven years and removed many cars like this and cant think of 1 that I would have wanted to keep for anything. If it was parked in a reasonable location and had a car cover on it
it should be OK.I dont think they are intending to go after legitimate classic car hobbyist's but anybody can say "oh I'm gonna restore that 72 buick 225 some day"common sense and courtesy should prevail in most cases... Just my .02

[This message has been edited by 3DUDE (edited 01-11-2002).]
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 02, 12:31 PM
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TJ
 
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I agree, I think it targets clunkers more than restoration projects. I see a lot of rusty old Jap cars sitting on the road or in front driveways. It is unsightly, but I think there would be some serious technical issues should this bill be passed. If a person pays for something, it becomes their property. For someone else to remove their property is theft. Where I am, it is actually unlawful for the trash collector to take garbage bags off of your property, even if you want them to. You MUST put the bags in the garbage bin, which is technically city property. On top of this, it is also illegal to rifle through any garbage that is in the bin as this is stealing city property. Really dumb laws, and naturally not enforced, but one can see how many hurdles there would be in trying to remove someones car.

Honestly, I think if it was covered, it would demonstrate that this car is not being neglected, and it would also indicate that the owner wishes not to make it an eye sore. In this case, it would take some serious battles to remove the bugger. On the other hand, a rustoid that has been sitting through 4 years of rain and snow without moving, well, that is clearly junk.

On another note, if your car is covered, you are not obligated to remove the cover for any reason should anyone wish to see what shape it is in. Also, anyone venturing onto your property to lift the cover themselves can be subject to charges. "Art" is also a word courts love to hear, and I am sure there would be many goofballs bringing the issues to court stating that the car is a piece of art, as many farmers do with vintage tractors left in the field.

I doubt it will go through, and even if it does, I don't think it will kill hotrodding.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 03:08 AM
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Mike
 
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My neighbor had 3 old 70's Fords trucks in his yard for 20 yrs. Always said that one day he was going to restore them. Everytime I looked out over the lake I saw these pieces of crap, one full of old building materials for over 10 yrs. They rusted away and he finally had them hauled them away a few yrs back, when his wife left him and he moved on.

I live in Michigan, own a 1964 Chevy (a big enough garage) and hope this pass's.

Anyone who can't garage there resto projects should pay the price IMHO. I live in small town and within 50 miles from there are problably 500 junkers sitting in yards, fields, woods, etc. Just 1 mile down the road from me there is an vacant business with about 10 beaters (1 is a 70's Red Camaro rusting away), no local laws prohibit this now and they are a big eyesore. Repeated attemts by neighbors have not helped. The owner cares less, they had to get the state police involved when it was determined they were partially on someone else's land. After many attempts by the Cops (who claimed the guy was an moroon), they guy still would not move his junk cars. Finally the TWP pushed them off the property. I thought shots were going to be fired. Forgot to mention, they found this old drunk dead in one the cars last year, been there for some time.

Some people are big time AH's and this is the only way to clean up the mess. You don't have to live with this junk, instead of complaining about these types of laws, buy the cars yourself and take them home. See if your neighbors care.


[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 01-12-2002).]
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 03:46 AM
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Around here, I've seen mailboxes made out of various automobile parts. Would these qualify as inoperable vehicles under this law? The parts are certainly not being used for the purpose for which they were manufactured. Also, if a "motor vehicle" does not have a motor, is it still a "motor vehicle"?
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 10:21 AM
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Mike
 
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In Michigan your mailbox all the side of the road and on ROW better be made out of break away materials. know of a crash where two young girls were killed when then hit a mailbox that was a steel pipe set in concrete, surrounded by stone and masonary. They hit that at high speed on a foggy night. The families sued the state, the property owner and won a big judgment. Seems it was common knowledge to his neighbors that he was po'd about his mailbox being hit so many times that he swore they would not be able to knock this one down. Anything you put or do along the side of the road or on your property that could hurt someone makes you liable.

[This message has been edited by elcamino (edited 01-12-2002).]
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Joe
 
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[QUOTE/]You don't have to live with this junk, instead of complaining about these types of laws, buy the cars yourself and take them home. See if your neighbors care.[/Quote]

Addresses please.....

The point isnt that this type of bill forces people to clean up junk.....the problem is that it is worded in such a way that legitimate hobbyists could suffer. heres an example..

Hypothetical situation-bill passes-

I have a fenced in area behind my garage that cant be seen into unless from above. I move my completely disassembled 69 Camaro into this area and put a cover on it. My neighbor whom doesnt like me much, sees me move the car into that area, and takes me to court to get the car removed from my property. He wins, my car goes, and I have to pay his court costs.

Was this hypothetical car an eyesore even though it couldnt be seen??? Is this a fair practice?? according to this bill the motor vehicle can be anywhere on your property.....like in your garage. So if you pull the engine from your car, even inside the garage, it is now litter and you can be court ordered to remove it from the property. Do you hope it passes now??? This bill is not worded well, even if the intentions are sound, and it could hurt alot of people.

Just the way I feel about it...

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 02:03 PM
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At first I thought this would be a problem and kind of flipped out a little. But then I remembered living next to a house that always had a couple junk cars slowly disolving into a pile of rust in the back yard. I realized that it might not be that bad of a deal if the law is administered fairly.

There is potential for abuse though - you get some witchy old lady living next door that doesn't like hot rods and the next thing you know you've got the cops at your door fining you for having a non-running project car on your own property.

We'll see.

------------------
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 02, 02:11 PM
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This Bill (S.B. 631) has been referred to the Committee on Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs in the Michigan Legislature, and has not been discussed yet in Committee. The Committee Chairman is:

Senator Kenneth R. Sikkema
Chairman, Committee on Natural Resources and Environmental Affairs
820 Farnum Building
Lansing, Michigan 48909

If enough interested constituents write him a constructive letter pointing out that the Bill as written can be mis-interpreted and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the vehicle restoration hobby and the rights of automotive hobbyists everywhere, it should have a short life in Committee as written. I have done so, as Chairman of the Michigan NCRS Chapter, and encourage others to write as well.



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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jan 13th, 02, 06:58 PM
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TJ
 
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It MUST be worded properly in order to do the job right. I agree, it is highly important that some sort of guideline be discussed within the bill that acknowledges hobbyists and their projects. As it sits now, it is too ambiguous, and leaves too much room for abuse, as demonstrated in the example above. This bill definately has to be refined before being passed, no doubt about that.
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