69 Reproduction hell - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Been working on my car a good bit in the last week because i bought a lot of parts needed to get the restoration rolling. I'm about sick at my stomach now every time I start to try and bolt on another part! It seems that just about everything is different in some way or another making it hell to install! It's even on some parts that have the GM authorized reproduction sticker on the box!

I've first had my woes with some of my hideway headlight stuff that still isn't worked out yet(had to send back some defects). Now i'm fighting the clutch linkage setup. I bought a complete kit for a big block setup. My car still had the pedal and rod that goes from the pedal to bellcrank. All it was missing was the bellcrank, the rod from there to the clutch fork, and the block and frame pivot balls. The rod from the pedal to Z bar was a lot shorter than the original (small block car). When it is all bolted up the rod hits the top of the hole in the firewall and binds it down more than a return spring will pull back. I have no engine in the car right now but I put mounts on a bare block and bolted up a bellhousing and fork to see if it all lines up. It doesn't appear like the rod from the pedal to zbar is going to be long enough. There's a lot of distance to the fork for that little adjustment threaded rod. The rod thats already there with the car seems to be too long! I'm not sure about this since the test setup has no flywheel or clutch/pp on it. I'm pretty sure I'll have to bend this rod to miss hitting the top of the hole in the firewall. It makes me sick to have to alter brand new parts that I paid a decent penny for.

Anyone ran into this problem before and what was the solution? This kit was a complete kit from pedal rod down to the return spring. It was purchased from NPD if that makes any difference. I believe (not sure untill I look again) the parts had a Classic Industries label on the box. Any help from you all is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance untill I have to ask another question when I bolt up the next part that probably won't fit right!
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 02:51 AM
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And I thuoght it was just me. Every machanical after market part I've bought I've had to work on to make it fit.It seems all these parts come from the same BIG supplier.If you can find NOS or used GM you will be money ahead because they fit.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 04:17 AM
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bebanobub, what is the length difference with the 2 rods from the pedal to bellcrank? I have both setups down at the shop. I'm going down there later when it quits snowing, and I'll check the differences for ya. Maybe someone will have the answer before I get back. Oh yea, mine is 67, is there a difference between the years?

------------------
Steve
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[This message has been edited by stevo camaro (edited 01-19-2002).]
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 07:20 AM
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Bedanobud, I wouldn't make any alterations to any part until you get your engine in. There are quite a few variables here. Do you have the correct frame pivot bracket? (6 cyl and V8 different). The correct pedals? Is your subframe full mounted with new or good mounts? Is the kit FOR a BB car??? Also, when the lower bellcrank pushrod (threaded rod) is positioned correctly, it will be on an angle that looks incorrect..it mounts outside to inside to the bell crank. I've never had problems with repro "Z" bar parts..I suggest you make sure every part is compatible before going any further.

Gary
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 07:37 AM
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didn't a 69 have a different pivot point on the clutch pedal, thus needing a bent rod to go thru the firewall? i think i might have read that somewhere- I'm thinking on David Pozzi's site maybe.

------------------
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 07:58 AM
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I ordered some kick panel speakers over a year ago and they don't even fit. Now it's too late to send them back.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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The rod, frame mount, and bellcrank are all changed with the parts in the kit. It was ordered for a 1969 big block car and the part # on the box matches the # in the catalog. The frame stands have been changed to correctly (supposedly) position the engine. The only thing that i'm not sure of is the pedal. It was in the car when I bought it so i'm guessing that it's the original one. The rod that was attached to the pedal was about 6" or so longer than the one in the kit. That would position the upper arm of the bellcrank at a lower position close to the steering column (but it doesn't hit the hole in the firewall though).The crappy diagram seems to show the upper arm of the bellcrank to be positioned straight up though. The old rod has an open hole at the end that attaches to the bellcrank. Looks like it used a pin and circlip to attach it or the original bellcrank had the tit made on it. The rod may have even supposed to go the other way! This was the way it was mounted when I took it out (like i said only the pedal and rod were in the car when I bought it). It was converted over to an auto.

I've tried to cover all the bases myself before asking for help. Just thought someone had run into this and some little oversight by me might correct the problem.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 10:45 AM
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Bedanobub- I have a pedal to crank rod here for a 68 small (I think) block. It has pins on both ends and measures 12" center to center on the pins. I wouldn't think a big block would be much different. Is the one that came with your car a lot longer than this.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 12:17 PM
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On the Repo parts it seem they would make a quality part that would work even if they had to charge a little more most people would not mind paying a little more for a good quality part instead of putting up with the head aches.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 12:49 PM
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bedanobub, I'm sorry, I forgot to check. It was 23 degrees when I finally talked myself to going down. After a quik brake job for a friend, I slammed the door and ran home with frozen fingers. I'll give it another try tomorrow.

------------------
Steve
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67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
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[This message has been edited by stevo camaro (edited 01-19-2002).]
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Steve.. I measured the repro rod and it is approx 12-1/4" end to end. The old rod that was in the car measured about 16-1/2" and one end there is a round hole. There must have been a pin to connect it to the Zbar. Is there a big difference in the pedals for the 1rst gens? How could I tell if there is a different year pedal in my car (don't think it's likely). I've tried using my original frame mount and the new one with the same results. I thought that maybe the frame was sprung upwards a little in relation to the body because i have the front clip off. I've tried slightly jacking up the car right at the rear most part of the sub frame with no luck. The fenders were in perfect alignment with the doors before I removed them so i don't think it's a frame mount problem. I don't think mounting the pivot ball to the block is going to make a big deal with the clearance of the rod through the firewall. The only thing I know to do right now is to either bend the rod some or drill another hole in the zbar a little bit lower to clear the firewall hole. I'll wait a few days and see if any of you can come up with a solution.
Thanks again
Dan
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 19th, 02, 02:45 PM
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The factory rod that I have, does have a very slight (2-3 degree) bend about 3" from the end.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 20th, 02, 05:28 AM
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I bought a complete clutch linkage kit from
Rick's and it bolted right up,everything seemed to be perfect and it works great on my 69 w/smallblock,maybe you got the wrong kit or something. Good luck
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 20th, 02, 12:38 PM
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Before you get too excited make sure you have the correct frame and engine mounts. Also the correct crossmemder. The engine is off set about an inch on BB cars.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old Jan 20th, 02, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Got all that stuff Oger and checked two and three times!! That really wouldn't affect the pedal rod hitting the top of the hole in the firewall but all that stuff is in place. I think maybe my pedal is the problem?? Checked a link to one of Davidpozzi's sights http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...ch_linkage.htm and he shows a 69 clutch pedal. Mine does not look like that nor does it look like the 67-68 ones i've looked at in catalogs. Actually the one he shows resembles the ones in the catalogs. I pulled my pedal out to check it out better. Viewing it as it would be in the car...from the pivot down about 1" or so it has a bend to the left (drivers side) then goes down another 1/2" to a bracket thats made on to the pedal. This bracket extends outward (toward you if sitting in the drivers seat) and upwards slightly about 2" or so out. This is where the hole is for the rod to connect. I have yet to see a picture of one that looks like this one. Is this a 69 pedal? If so it doesn't look like the one on Davidpozzi's sight. It looks correct untill you get up under the dash and compare this ones to the others. Now i'm really curious about this pedal. I can do some modifications and make the rod clear. I just didn't want to do that then find out some silly oversight by me caused me to alter the parts that would have worked to start with!
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