Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 11th, 17, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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James
 
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Question Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

My car currently has a 396 bg block paired with a TH400. I am at the very early stages of my '69 Camaro twin turbo LS swap. I am currently pulling out a LQ4 mated to a 4L80E that has only 83,000 miles out of a 2004 3/4 ton GMC Sierra. I am planning on doing a forged rotating assembly (or possibly keeping the stock crank), and going with either twin S366 turbos or a single S476 turbo if space under the hood is at too much of a premium.

Here are my plans for the engine:
-Bore the LQ4 out to a 408
-Keep the stock 317 head castings
-LJMS LS Turbo Stage 1 (or 2) Cam Kit
-Molnar Forged 4340 crank (or stock)
-Molnar turbo LS1 rods with ARP bolts
-Wiseco pistons
-ARP main bolts
-ARP head studs
-JP Performance single roller timing chain
-Melling high pressure oil pump
-Holley 302-2 Oil Pan
-80-120 PSI fuel injectors
-2 Borg Warner S366 turbos (or a single S476)

Engine Questions:
1) What motor mounts have you guys used with success? I was thinking about using the Hooker mounts. Even though my car has a 396 and TH400 combo currently, I believe my mounts are small block mounts due to the dimple in the headers on the driver side.
2) I want to keep as many of the stock truck accessories as possible (intake, alternator, crank pulley, etc.). I have heard that the truck intake and alternator setup will not fit under the hood of a '69 Camaro. Does anyone have any experience with that?
3) If I can't use the truck intake and accessory drives, what should I purchase instead? I would hate to have to blow a significant amount of my budget on a LS1/6 intake and F-body or Corvette accessories.
4) What battery relocation kit did you buy? Or did you make one yourself?
5) I was thinking about reusing the truck manifolds and flipping them. How does that work as far as fitment in our cars? Is there another turbo header that fit well without modification? Do any of yu have detailed pictures of your turbo "plumbing"?
6) Where did you place the intercooler? What size intercooler did you use with good results?

Here are my plans for the Transmission:
-Install Transgo HD2 shift kit
-Circle D triple disc billet torque converter (~3300 stall)
-Upgrade input shaft and any other "needed" parts to support my goal power level

Transmission Questions:
1) What crossmember have you guys used with success? I was thinking about buying the Hooker crossmember to pair with the engine mounts.
2) What are some of the parts you replaced to "beef up" the transmission to hold the new increased power level.
3) Can I reuse my existing TH400 driveshaft, but just shorten it and re balance it?

Here are my plans for the fuel system:
-Either purchase a new tank with a built in sump, or add a sump to my stock tank (I'm still unsure if this is the way to go or not)
-Use a Magnafuel Protuner 750 external fuel pump
-Use factory truck fuel pressure regulator

Fuel delivery questions:
1) Should I use the factory tank and have it sumped? Or should I just buy a new tank and have it sumped?
2) Would I be happier with in-tank pump(s)? Will they be able to provide enough fuel for my power goals?


Side notes:
-I am planning on reusing the stock ECU from the Sierra.
-I haven't worked out the finer details of any parts of this build so I am up for listening to any suggestions you may have
-I am not a skilled fabricator, so I would prefer to do as little fabrication as possible.
-If I need fabricating done, I have a mechanic that would charge $50 per hour to do it. FYI

That is all of the questions I have for now. Please let me know if I have any apparent flaws in the build. I am starting to purchase parts, so please help me not waste money!

-James
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 05:49 AM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

I am not running a turbo, but I am working on my N/A LS swap. Here is what I have found:

The truck intake the should clear but is pretty ugly if nothing else. I would go with an LS6 intake. My FAST 102 clears with about 2.5 inches to the bottom of the factory cowl hood. Google search "20 LS1 intakes tested" for an article by Hot Rod. It has a TON of information on LS intakes that were tested on an NA motor.

I am 95% sure the truck accessory will clear. I believe 67Rally used them on his build thread. F-Body accessories will require frame notching. I went with the Corvette accessory setup which looks better and fits closer to the block. Your intake choice will not dictate your accessory selection.

I have the Holley swap parts and everything fits like a glove. The Holley setup does not use factory mounts and bolts directly to the subframe. It utilizes $10 GM style clamshell mounts.

Holley also has turbo headers listed on their website, but there seems to be an issue with viewing. Verify they are available. I have their Blackheart Stainless headers. I can't say enough about the quality and finish. They are beautiful.

I would do some research on using a large fuel pump with a factory regulator. There have been issues reported where the regulator cannot handle large pumps. Issues seems to be hit or miss, so in order to mitigate my risk, I went with an in-tank Walboro 400 and plan on using an Aeromotive setup.
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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 06:09 AM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

I do not know of any off the shelf kits for turbos and 1st Gens. Most of the guys do a lot of fab work. At $50 per hour that can add up real fast.

I would take a look as LS1tech Lot of good info

http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction-9/

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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 06:16 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I do not know of any off the shelf kits for turbos and 1st Gens. Most of the guys do a lot of fab work. At $50 per hour that can add up real fast.

I would take a look as LS1tech Lot of good info

Forced Induction - LS1TECH
I know my pocket book is in for a world of hurt when it comes to the fab work. I just want to make sure that I can purchase a lot of parts that can eventually work together.

I have been reading up on LS1 Tech and ProTouring forums. Unfortunately, they all hit significant snags with fitment. It also seems like there isn't a "best" option when it comes to our cars.

Thank you for your reply! I've been reading your helpful posts on this forum for years now.
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Uranus View Post
I am not running a turbo, but I am working on my N/A LS swap. Here is what I have found:

The truck intake the should clear but is pretty ugly if nothing else. I would go with an LS6 intake. My FAST 102 clears with about 2.5 inches to the bottom of the factory cowl hood. Google search "20 LS1 intakes tested" for an article by Hot Rod. It has a TON of information on LS intakes that were tested on an NA motor.

I am 95% sure the truck accessory will clear. I believe 67Rally used them on his build thread. F-Body accessories will require frame notching. I went with the Corvette accessory setup which looks better and fits closer to the block. Your intake choice will not dictate your accessory selection.

I have the Holley swap parts and everything fits like a glove. The Holley setup does not use factory mounts and bolts directly to the subframe. It utilizes $10 GM style clamshell mounts.

Holley also has turbo headers listed on their website, but there seems to be an issue with viewing. Verify they are available. I have their Blackheart Stainless headers. I can't say enough about the quality and finish. They are beautiful.

I would do some research on using a large fuel pump with a factory regulator. There have been issues reported where the regulator cannot handle large pumps. Issues seems to be hit or miss, so in order to mitigate my risk, I went with an in-tank Walboro 400 and plan on using an Aeromotive setup.
I thought I read somewhere that the truck accessories will not work with the LS6 intake...I'll have to research that further.

As far as the Holley swap parts are concerned, did you use the following part numbers?: 12618HKR (Swap plates), 71221004HKR (Clamshell Engine Mounts), Energy Suspension 3.1116 (poly mount), 12627HKR (4L80 transmission crossmember)

Did you put in a 4L80E? How was the fitment?

I looked into the Flowtech turbo headers on their website, I wonder if they would save me some fab time as opposed to flipped truck manifolds...They sure would look better...
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 08:23 AM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroMan469 View Post
I thought I read somewhere that the truck accessories will not work with the LS6 intake...I'll have to research that further.

As far as the Holley swap parts are concerned, did you use the following part numbers?: 12618HKR (Swap plates), 71221004HKR (Clamshell Engine Mounts), Energy Suspension 3.1116 (poly mount), 12627HKR (4L80 transmission crossmember)

Did you put in a 4L80E? How was the fitment?

I looked into the Flowtech turbo headers on their website, I wonder if they would save me some fab time as opposed to flipped truck manifolds...They sure would look better...


Yes, that is the plate kit I used. I bought the 2292 Anchor brand clamshell mounts from Summit for 50% less. Holley just puts their PN on them and charges more. Same goes for their gas tanks (Tanks Inc).


I used Prothane 7-1604-BL(trans); PTP-7-506-BL (motor only) ;7-1906-BL to get the trans mount and engine mount inserts.


I have a T56, so your trans mount PN may be different.


The T56 fit in with no modification needed other than relocating the shifter hole.


The Holley stuff goes on sale in December. I have a very slow build, so I bought what I needed over the course of 2 Decembers. That should save you about $100 on the headers if you are in no hurry. Trust me, next December will pop up fast if you are building a new motor.
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 12:07 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Summit and Holley say that the Holley clamshell mounts aren't exactly the same. I spoke with both Holley and Summit and they confirmed that the Holley P/N is sturdier.

1967 RS Coupe (clone): 406 SBC, Thorley headers, Muncie, Hotchkis suspension, Centerline Matrix 17" wheels with Nitto 555's, Baer brakes, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, RS conversion, Vintage Air, PPG Hot Red. (SOLD)

1968 RS Coupe: Project...Mini-tubbed, Cammed LS 6.0, T56, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, Ridetech 4 link...slowly adding more...
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Uranus View Post
Yes, that is the plate kit I used. I bought the 2292 Anchor brand clamshell mounts from Summit for 50% less. Holley just puts their PN on them and charges more. Same goes for their gas tanks (Tanks Inc).


I used Prothane 7-1604-BL(trans); PTP-7-506-BL (motor only) ;7-1906-BL to get the trans mount and engine mount inserts.


I have a T56, so your trans mount PN may be different.


The T56 fit in with no modification needed other than relocating the shifter hole.


The Holley stuff goes on sale in December. I have a very slow build, so I bought what I needed over the course of 2 Decembers. That should save you about $100 on the headers if you are in no hurry. Trust me, next December will pop up fast if you are building a new motor.
I would be careful about believing Holley's claim that a T56 can be installed without tunnel mods.

This issue is not the height of the mounts. The issue is clearance between the oil pan and the sub frame that limits how low the engine is mounted in the subframe without notching the sub.

I do know of one thread that was posted a while back where the poster tried without tunnel mod and the angle of the engine was too severe. I believe he ended up modding the tunnel and shimming the tranny mount to get the proper driveline angle.
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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 12:51 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I would be careful about believing Holley's claim that a T56 can be installed without tunnel mods.

This issue is not the height of the mounts. The issue is clearance between the oil pan and the sub frame that limits how low the engine is mounted in the subframe without notching the sub.

I do know of one thread that was posted a while back where the poster tried without tunnel mod and the angle of the engine was too severe. I believe he ended up modding the tunnel and shimming the tranny mount to get the proper driveline angle.
I was able to get my LSX/T56 installed using Holley parts with no tunnel mods and my driveline angles were just fine, I believe Jeff (workng247) was able to get the same results. I remember it was really tight between the transmission and the floor to get the mount installed but it did fit but I wouldn't go as far as saying it wont be required 100% of the time. Chances are if the floor of the car is solid you'll probably be fine it will just be a bit of a pain.

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Last edited by stugger; Jan 12th, 17 at 01:03 PM.
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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 01:09 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

I think it depends on which LS swap Holley pan you use. (ie 302-2). The 302-2 has extra clearance up front. I'm putting in pretty much the same kit that Stugger used. I can take pics of the pan if needed since it's just sitting in my office lol.

1967 RS Coupe (clone): 406 SBC, Thorley headers, Muncie, Hotchkis suspension, Centerline Matrix 17" wheels with Nitto 555's, Baer brakes, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, RS conversion, Vintage Air, PPG Hot Red. (SOLD)

1968 RS Coupe: Project...Mini-tubbed, Cammed LS 6.0, T56, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, Ridetech 4 link...slowly adding more...
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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 01:11 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I would be careful about believing Holley's claim that a T56 can be installed without tunnel mods.

This issue is not the height of the mounts. The issue is clearance between the oil pan and the sub frame that limits how low the engine is mounted in the subframe without notching the sub.

I do know of one thread that was posted a while back where the poster tried without tunnel mod and the angle of the engine was too severe. I believe he ended up modding the tunnel and shimming the tranny mount to get the proper driveline angle.

I have the ATS pan on the 402 that came with the 402 I purchased from you. I installed the engine/trans combo 3 weeks ago. It clears the frame. I believe the MAST pan will also clear after comparing the dimensions. I have not checked the angles, but I have no reason to think they will be out of wack. I haven't seen anyone use this kit and need to make adjustments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroMan469 View Post

-Bore the LQ4 out to a 408

-Holley 302-2 Oil Pan

That pan will not clear a 4" crank. You will need to have a window cut out and welded in to create clearance. There are a few examples online if you search. The 302-1 will, but requires frame notching. Try the ATS or the MAST pan. Both of those will also have outlets for oil for the turbos as well. ATS is built into the pan, MAST has provisions for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MangeMD View Post
Summit and Holley say that the Holley clamshell mounts aren't exactly the same. I spoke with both Holley and Summit and they confirmed that the Holley P/N is sturdier.

I see that on the Holley site now. It looks like you are correct. They appear to be a bit (but not by much) thicker. They are almost twice the price of the Anchors, which isn't a lot being $34. They are very new and were not available when I made my purchase.

Last edited by Titan Uranus; Jan 12th, 17 at 01:23 PM.
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 01:32 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

When ever I hear LS and turbo....I think of 3Pedals combo It doesn't take a lot really

100k mile 6.0, untouched rotating assy-strait from the wreaker
l92 heads, BW S480
Comp 227/235, .613/.621, 114+4 w/patriot extreme springs
Vic jr/ CSU750 blow through
AIS 3nozzle meth setup, comes in at 4psi
C16 fuel
1067hp @ 6700 <--link

But I will say, twins are cool.

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1.54 60'--6.95 @ 98.45 660'--10.96 @ 121.53

Last edited by DOUG G; Jan 12th, 17 at 01:47 PM.
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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 02:01 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Corey,

I have a set of those clamshells at home, and they do look thicker...but 50% may be a stretch lol.

1967 RS Coupe (clone): 406 SBC, Thorley headers, Muncie, Hotchkis suspension, Centerline Matrix 17" wheels with Nitto 555's, Baer brakes, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, RS conversion, Vintage Air, PPG Hot Red. (SOLD)

1968 RS Coupe: Project...Mini-tubbed, Cammed LS 6.0, T56, 12 bolt 3.73 posi, Ridetech 4 link...slowly adding more...
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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Uranus View Post
That pan will not clear a 4" crank. You will need to have a window cut out and welded in to create clearance. There are a few examples online if you search. The 302-1 will, but requires frame notching. Try the ATS or the MAST pan. Both of those will also have outlets for oil for the turbos as well. ATS is built into the pan, MAST has provisions for it.
I think my original 408 claim is incorrect. I plan on using a stock stroke (3.622) Molnar forged crank. Would you still recommend the ATS or Mast pan? I already bought the Holley 302-2, so I was hoping to keep it...
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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old Jan 12th, 17, 04:02 PM
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Re: Calling All '69 Twin Turbo LS Swap Owners: Need Help With Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroMan469 View Post
I think my original 408 claim is incorrect. I plan on using a stock stroke (3.622) Molnar forged crank. Would you still recommend the ATS or Mast pan? I already bought the Holley 302-2, so I was hoping to keep it...
I was going to urge you not to stroke it.

The turbo will make tons of power - no need to stress the bottom end with a longer stroke.

The 302-2 pan is the correct one for a stock stroke. 302-1 will hit the subframe.

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