Mechanical clutch linkage - Team Camaro Tech
LSx Swap LSx Engines in Non-LSx Vehicles

 1Likes
  • 1 Post By Vega
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 17, 03:50 AM Thread Starter
Gold Lifetime Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Southeast Pa.
Posts: 1,657
Mechanical clutch linkage

Do LS swaps have to use hydraulic clutch setups or is it just a lesser of the two evils scenario?

67RSSS......owned since 69. A basket case for most of it.
3d cad is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 17, 04:13 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Greg
 
pittpens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,956
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Either way - go hydraulic! I was stubborn and went mechanical on my MarkIV and am now regretting it. There is no room for anything, pain in the a$$ to even get in there to adjust it and on top of that, now I need the help of a nuclear scientist to help figure out how to hook up a return spring to the clutch fork. Sounds stupid, but I have no straight shot in my application to connect to anything without rubbing on something else. I have some ideas for the fix, but shouldn't be this hard period. Go hydraulic!

'68 Camaro with RS conversion
Moser 9" with 4:11
Martz Chassis 4-link and Front Sub-frame
Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed
572 BB - CM Engines
Wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear disc
pittpens24 is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 17, 04:33 AM Thread Starter
Gold Lifetime Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Southeast Pa.
Posts: 1,657
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

I am fully in tune with the stubborn component.

67RSSS......owned since 69. A basket case for most of it.
3d cad is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 17, 05:20 AM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 13,326
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

There is no provision the the clutch ball on a LS block. They do make a bracket that bolts on with the bell housing bolts. Depending on where you locate your engine forward and back and up and down you may not line up with the Z bar bracket on the subframe and then you may have to deal with header and clutch linkage interference.

I just put a TKO600 in my SS396 car and went hydraulic to avoid the above potential issues.
DT likes this.

2017 Corvette ZO6 with ZO7 Option
66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(SOLD)
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56 (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Vega$69 is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 6th, 17, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
Gold Lifetime Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Southeast Pa.
Posts: 1,657
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

This could get a little long winded... When I started down this path I decided early that I was gonna build a small block that could mess with the LS cars and after a while decided that was a fools errand. Can you do it? sure. Can you do it in a car that can run a few thousand miles to and from the power tour......maybe. I am after a big inch small block. So I started looking at LS swaps and studying up on the LS motor a bit. I cant leave things alone. Whatever LS I would get would be messed with so for me an iron block is in order and perhaps an aftermarket one because the LS and the SBC do share some deficiencies. It seems that an LS kinda sucks in the fit dept. Stuff is in the way. I don't want an aftermarket subframe. The easy thing to do is drop an automatic in. Nah. I am going to put a TKO 600 in with a shield. From what I read it appears that clutch issues are the #1 pita in finished conversions mechanical or hydraulic. The burr under the saddle that never goes away. So how to get around this? For a while I had it in my mind that Mitchells LS hybrid was the way out of this. LS up top. SBC underneath and out back. Original stuff fits. Lately I decided I was delusional. Then I ran across Dart's LS Next SHP info. It seems that block works out some of the issues underneath but apparently not out back. I haven't found anyone on line that has gone down this path and Dart isn't much help. Dave had me looking real hard at the SB2 but that's such a different animal that I wont go there either. I don't mind making stuff I cant buy. Sometimes I would rather do that just because. Anyway I have to figure this out and somewhat soon. My rear should show up as loose parts this coming week and after I get that in I am going to need to have a block, shield, and tranny sitting here to work onto the subframe and under the car. I would just hate to have to get a LY6 and do something reasonable.

67RSSS......owned since 69. A basket case for most of it.
3d cad is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 05:34 AM
DT
Gold Lifetime Member
Donny
 
DT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Rockland Cty/Melb bch Fla
Posts: 5,217
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3d cad View Post
This could get a little long winded... When I started down this path I decided early that I was gonna build a small block that could mess with the LS cars and after a while decided that was a fools errand. Can you do it? sure. Can you do it in a car that can run a few thousand miles to and from the power tour......maybe. I am after a big inch small block. So I started looking at LS swaps and studying up on the LS motor a bit. I cant leave things alone. Whatever LS I would get would be messed with so for me an iron block is in order and perhaps an aftermarket one because the LS and the SBC do share some deficiencies. It seems that an LS kinda sucks in the fit dept. Stuff is in the way. I don't want an aftermarket subframe. The easy thing to do is drop an automatic in. Nah. I am going to put a TKO 600 in with a shield. From what I read it appears that clutch issues are the #1 pita in finished conversions mechanical or hydraulic. The burr under the saddle that never goes away. So how to get around this? For a while I had it in my mind that Mitchells LS hybrid was the way out of this. LS up top. SBC underneath and out back. Original stuff fits. Lately I decided I was delusional. Then I ran across Dart's LS Next SHP info. It seems that block works out some of the issues underneath but apparently not out back. I haven't found anyone on line that has gone down this path and Dart isn't much help. Dave had me looking real hard at the SB2 but that's such a different animal that I wont go there either. I don't mind making stuff I cant buy. Sometimes I would rather do that just because. Anyway I have to figure this out and somewhat soon. My rear should show up as loose parts this coming week and after I get that in I am going to need to have a block, shield, and tranny sitting here to work onto the subframe and under the car. I would just hate to have to get a LY6 and do something reasonable.
Forgive me, but I'm not understanding your logic with respect to the LS deficiencies. Fit ?? My LS dropped right in with a stock subframe and the Holley mounts and oil pan. Headers fit awesome. Thinking about mechanical linkage ??? NO comparison with a hydraulic set-up. I think your mind set is still somewhat Old School and the NEW stuff is somewhat intimidating. (It was to me as well in the beginning) If cost was the issue I could completely see your point. The little incidentals are adding up quickly. Go LS and don't look back. Good Luck.

1969 X66 396 LeMans Blue, M20, 373 (Sold)
1969 Convertible LS3 TKO 600, 373
DT is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 05:50 AM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 13,326
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Steve. I don't know what stuff you feel is in the way.

I've done a lot of swaps with both aftermarket and stock subframes. Never had an issue with fitting. Used T56, TKO600 and 4L65E trannys. With and without ac. Power and manual brakes etc.

Only fit issue I ran into was with the heater tubes on a 67 with the stock SBC heater box. Converted it to a BBC box cover solved the issue. All other builds had Vintage Air.

The SBC/LS hybrid is expensive and I don't see what it gives you over the LS except headaches.

Iron blocks are good for going big like a LSX 496 or boosted applications and nitrous. Other then that you can get big reliable power with the aluminum block.

2017 Corvette ZO6 with ZO7 Option
66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(SOLD)
69 Pro Tour - LS7/T56 (SOLD)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

69 Z28/RS Tribute355/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 RS Clone 427/TH400 (SOLD)
67 RSZZ502/5 Speed (SOLD)
69 Camaro 406 SBC/TH400 (SOLD)
Vega$69 is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
Gold Lifetime Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Southeast Pa.
Posts: 1,657
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

I want to build a long rod stroker motor. I dont need it. Its not cost effective. Dont be introducing logic here. At the very least ill get a LY6 and stroke it a little bit. Anyway neither sbc or ls factory blocks clear the cranks so if im stuck with aftermarket iron anyway.... as soon as you think stroker the cost game changes at you kinda wind up at the same point regardless of path.
i get the sense from reading here and on other sites that the clutch component of these swaps is the biggest long term pita. Getting a setup that worked reliably with a QuickTime shield was an ongoing effort so yeah, i was looking back at old school. I havent owned a hydraulic clutch car i liked. My friends that had hydraulics in their race cars got rid of them. At the moment i view them as a pain in the *** id rather avoid. Yeah, i could be all wet and that stubborn is playing a part here.
I already converted it to a bb heater John.

67RSSS......owned since 69. A basket case for most of it.
3d cad is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 10:37 AM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 13,326
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Every new car produced from about 1990 with a manual both domestic and foreign have hydraulic clutches. Obviously they work very well.

I installed one on an LS3 with a Old Lakewood SBC scattershield 3 years ago and it's still performing flawlessly

You can cleareance stock blocks for stroker cranks.

Just sayin.
Vega$69 is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
Gold Lifetime Member
Steve
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Southeast Pa.
Posts: 1,657
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Huh, John. You actually used an old lakewood?. I read they were different either with an extra or missing bolt hole but i didnt know the lined up. I have 1 or 2 of those. ....lookin at ebay......

67RSSS......owned since 69. A basket case for most of it.
3d cad is offline  
post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 17, 08:04 PM
Moderator
John
 
Vega$69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vegas NV/Wesley Chapel FL
Posts: 13,326
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Yep. I'll look for the pics. I think one at the top.

Same bolt pattern as the GM aluminum SBC and BBC bells.
Vega$69 is offline  
post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 17, 07:03 AM
Gold Lifetime Member
Greg
 
pittpens24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,956
Garage
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

You sound like me lol. If you have the will - there is a way.......you just need to find it! Finally found mine with the return spring thinking outside the box. Actually made a bracket that utilized one of the quicktime bell housing bolts and a trip to Tractor Supply for a short spring - works like a champ. Keep in mind that if you do go mechanical, replace as much of the stock rods as possible and replace them with rod ends. Made a huge difference in my dual disc clutch set-up

'68 Camaro with RS conversion
Moser 9" with 4:11
Martz Chassis 4-link and Front Sub-frame
Tremec T-56 Magnum 6 speed
572 BB - CM Engines
Wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear disc
pittpens24 is offline  
post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 17, 05:13 PM
Gold Lifetime Member
Chris
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,072
Re: Mechanical clutch linkage

Yes, like Greg suggests, heim end linkage rods.

https://www.speeddirect.com/index.ph...ucts/rod-links

'69 Z/28, Lemans Blue/White Stripes, DZ302, Tremec Magnum, 4.10, Procar Elite Seats,
Custom Upholstery, Dynatech headers, 17" VWW V45's, 235/45, 275/40, C5 Front Brakes
ctcz28 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome