PWM fuel pump - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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PWM fuel pump

I have a tanks inc setup with a pwm pump
Does the ecm control the pump directly or do i need another component
Thanks

69 Frost Green Camaro
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:00 AM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
I have a tanks inc setup with a pwm pump
Does the ecm control the pump directly or do i need another component
Thanks
What pump do you have.

Steve
1968 that started life and a 6 banger with a PG. Now it's a 350 with a TKO600, Moser 12 bolt, Speedtech LCA/UCA, ATS Tall Spindles, Hotchkis Springs, Forgeline ZX3P, C5 (Kore3) brakes with other cool stuff from Ron Davis, Vintage Air and soon to be Terminator EFI.


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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:03 AM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

You will need a PWM controller like the one Vaporworx sells. The pressure sender too.

This assumes you want to use PWM control. Of course you can always use a Corvette regulator or any other regulator. Pump will just run wide open instead of variable speed.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:42 AM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

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Originally Posted by eville View Post
What pump do you have.
I have a tanks inc setup with a pwm pump
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eville View Post
What pump do you have.
I have a tanks inc setup with a pwm pump
GPA-5 turbine pwm pump

69 Frost Green Camaro
LS3 with TSP stage 3 cam
Tremec TKO 600
Moser 12 bolt rear with ford ends 3.73:1 Eaton tru trac differential
Speedtech pro touring subframe
Ridetech rear 4-Link


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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 11:00 AM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
GPA-5 turbine pwm pump
Do you want to have PWM control?

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
GPA-5 turbine pwm pump
Do you want to have PWM control?

Don
I do for the fact that the output can fluctuate depending on voltage given keeping the pump cooler and quieter

69 Frost Green Camaro
LS3 with TSP stage 3 cam
Tremec TKO 600
Moser 12 bolt rear with ford ends 3.73:1 Eaton tru trac differential
Speedtech pro touring subframe
Ridetech rear 4-Link


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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 12:58 PM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

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Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
I do for the fact that the output can fluctuate depending on voltage given keeping the pump cooler and quieter
Ok then you will need a Vaporworx controller, sender etc.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 06:18 PM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Though the pump is PWM compatible, there's a bit more to it for the pump and control systems to function properly.

For PWM controlled pumps in a closed-loop electrical system a minimal amount of fuel must pass through them during operation. This amount is more than what the engine needs at idle can cruise. Hence, a high pressure bypass (controlled leak) is needed. We have had good success with similar tank/pump arrangements by drilling a small hole in the hardline tube that is inside the tank where the hose from the pump connects. This way the bypassed fuel is simply returned to the fuel load.

In other applications an external fitting is can be used. For a TI450lph a 0.041" x 1/8" long restrictions works well. For an Aeromotive Stealth 340, a 0.025" bypass is appropriate. I've not tested the TI F90000288 that is in question by the OP but something in the 0.025 - 0.032" is likely in the ballpark. Only testing will tell.

The OEM's however put this bypassed fuel to work by driving suction pumps. These pumps fill the module reservoir and/or transfer fuel from remote sections of the tank. These reservoirs have a huge advantage vs. anything else in the market: 1) slosh control, and 2) pump inlet head. Slosh problems are a thing of the past with the reservoirs. The inlet to the pump, especially at lower, and hot, fuel levels is the primary cause of "vapor lock." Fuel boils at the inlet to the pump and pressure falls. By reducing the speed of the pump (PWM), keeping heat out of the fuel load (non-recirculating), and having a high inlet head pressure (reservoir) helps keep the pump properly fed.

Simply put, there is nothing in the aftermarket that is in the same orbit as an OEM fuel module.
130fe, dhutton and 350sshugger like this.


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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 08:10 PM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlC View Post
Though the pump is PWM compatible, there's a bit more to it for the pump and control systems to function properly.

For PWM controlled pumps in a closed-loop electrical system a minimal amount of fuel must pass through them during operation. This amount is more than what the engine needs at idle can cruise. Hence, a high pressure bypass (controlled leak) is needed. We have had good success with similar tank/pump arrangements by drilling a small hole in the hardline tube that is inside the tank where the hose from the pump connects. This way the bypassed fuel is simply returned to the fuel load.

In other applications an external fitting is can be used. For a TI450lph a 0.041" x 1/8" long restrictions works well. For an Aeromotive Stealth 340, a 0.025" bypass is appropriate. I've not tested the TI F90000288 that is in question by the OP but something in the 0.025 - 0.032" is likely in the ballpark. Only testing will tell.

The OEM's however put this bypassed fuel to work by driving suction pumps. These pumps fill the module reservoir and/or transfer fuel from remote sections of the tank. These reservoirs have a huge advantage vs. anything else in the market: 1) slosh control, and 2) pump inlet head. Slosh problems are a thing of the past with the reservoirs. The inlet to the pump, especially at lower, and hot, fuel levels is the primary cause of "vapor lock." Fuel boils at the inlet to the pump and pressure falls. By reducing the speed of the pump (PWM), keeping heat out of the fuel load (non-recirculating), and having a high inlet head pressure (reservoir) helps keep the pump properly fed.

Simply put, there is nothing in the aftermarket that is in the same orbit as an OEM fuel module.
Interesting and informative as usual. Thanks Carl.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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So what Pwm kit should i look into?
Stock ls3 with tsp stage 3 cam so probably 500 hp

69 Frost Green Camaro
LS3 with TSP stage 3 cam
Tremec TKO 600
Moser 12 bolt rear with ford ends 3.73:1 Eaton tru trac differential
Speedtech pro touring subframe
Ridetech rear 4-Link


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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 14th, 20, 08:34 PM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
So what Pwm kit should i look into?
Stock ls3 with tsp stage 3 cam so probably 500 hp
Contact Carl through https://www.vaporworx.com/

Hes very knowledgeable and helpful.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 20, 09:35 AM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Yeah buy a ricks tank with a vaporworx pump. One of the best on the market!

Chris
1968 Camaro SS coupe, Lemans Blue/medium blue interior
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 20, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: PWM fuel pump

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Originally Posted by 130fe View Post
Yeah buy a ricks tank with a vaporworx pump. One of the best on the market!

lloking into it the restomod tank is more my style it says it accepts 2011-2017 camaro pump modules but it looks like there is another hole in the tank for what it looks to be for a sender isnt it integrated into the module?

69 Frost Green Camaro
LS3 with TSP stage 3 cam
Tremec TKO 600
Moser 12 bolt rear with ford ends 3.73:1 Eaton tru trac differential
Speedtech pro touring subframe
Ridetech rear 4-Link


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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old Feb 15th, 20, 03:33 PM
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Re: PWM fuel pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by stamatisg1977 View Post
lloking into it the restomod tank is more my style it says it accepts 2011-2017 camaro pump modules but it looks like there is another hole in the tank for what it looks to be for a sender isnt it integrated into the module?
There is a sender but it is not compatible with stock gauges.

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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