Vintage Air - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2002 General Tech questions from 2002
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old May 6th, 02, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Abilene TX, USA
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Guy's I know it's been discussed before but I have a unique question about the system.

Has anyone installed this in a 67 non air car. The reason I ask is, if I do this, it will require cutting holes for the astro vents on the sides. How hard is this and what's the best way to cut the holes.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 02, 08:36 AM
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I installed a vintage air system in my originally non-A/C 67 at the end of last summer. I also added the original type A/C vents in the dash so the car looks like it came with A/C from the factory inside...sounds like this is what you want to do. First off, I bought the Astro vents (the outer two vents) from Vintage Air. If you buy them from Vintage Air (they cost the same as if you buy them from a Camaro parts house - about $80 for the pair) they come to you with the A/C kit already preassembled and modified to accept the vintage air vent hoses. If you don't buy the vent balls from them, you'll have to modify them yourself to accept the hoses, so I recommend that you purchase them from Vintage Air. Also, if you buy the outer vents from VA, they provide templates to cut holes in the dash for them...something you aboslutely will need. The templates make scribing the holes easy. Cutting them is a different story, however. The holes are not round, but oval in shape. I used a 1" metal hole saw to remove as much material as possible from the center of the scribed hole. I then used a hoopless hacksaw (bought it at Lowe's) to cut out the hole as close to the scribed line as I could get it. It's hard to do because of the curves and goes very slowly. I also broke several blades and slipped and nicked the dash several times...it's very easy to slip (I had to refinish the dash after this project). I intentionally left a little material inside of the scribe to ensure that I had no gaps around the vent...I could remove more material if need be this way without removing too much. To accomplish the final hole adjustments and edge smoothing, I used a set of Campbell Hausfield air compressor stone grinders from Wal-Mart in an electric drill. Worked beautifully. I just took little by little off, fitting the vent in the hole each time to see how the fit was going until I could fit the vent flush to the dash. It's not hard, it's just time consuming and messy. Be sure you take your time...if you rush it, you'll surely screw up. The center vent is much easier. You'll need to buy the center vent from a parts house. I got an OER one from Ricks. Just cut out the hole for the center vent in the dash behind the bezel. The screw holes are already punched, so it makes it pretty easy. However, you will need to buy a used center vent A/C duct to attach the metal chrome vent to the duct. It's part AC-74 from Ricks and it cost $45 when I got it. It's a goofy looking plastic duct...it attaches to the dash through the two center vent mounting holes, sandwiching the center vent between the plastic duct and the dash. You will also need to buy the adapter for an A/C car from Vintage air to connect their hose to the plastic center vent duct...I think it cost $6. You'll also need an A/C center dash bezel. It's more work and money this way, but it looks awesome...looks like the car came this way.

By the way, cutting the dash holes wasn't bad, but it was the most time consuming part of the install...the rest of the Vintage Air installation is a piece of cake, except for removing the old blower motor and heater duct, which I managed to do without removing the passenger fender.

------------------
Justin Traunero
[email protected]furman.edu
The Club - GM Muscle Cars of the Carolinas

-1967 Camaro SS350 clone - 350/TH-350 with shift kit, CompCams XE268H, Dynomax Jet-Hot headers, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, Vintage Air

-2002 Impala LS - Medium Bronzemist Metallic, every option except engine block heater

<A HREF="http://www.furman.edu/~jtrauner" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see my Camaro and my parents' 2002 Impala LS.
</A>

[This message has been edited by jrt67ss350 (edited 05-07-2002).]
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 02, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks JRT 67. That is exactly what I was planning and your information is superb. It's detailed enough it almost belongs in the Tech Reference section.

I think I will try it sometime this summer. In Texas we don't drive in the summer without A/C. Threfore mine will out of commission for a while.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 02, 01:50 PM
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No prob, Rick!! I hit this install without any of this knowledge going into it...I had to figure it out as I went along. I was not aware of things like the used plastic center duct, so my project took longer as I had to wait on parts...I'm glad to provide info that I had to discover the hard way to help others' install go smoother and quicker. Save my email address, and if you have any questions about the install when you get there, by all means drop me a line and I'll be glad to provide any insight that I can.

In SC, the summers are a bear too...my 67 has been my only car since I started driving (7 years now), and I got tired of roasting on the vinyl seats in the summer. The VA unit is a nice A/C unit...works well. I sprung for the optional polished compressor...it is awesome looking....definitely worth the extra $50.

------------------
Justin Traunero
[email protected]
The Club - GM Muscle Cars of the Carolinas

-1967 Camaro SS350 clone - 350/TH-350 with shift kit, CompCams XE268H, Dynomax Jet-Hot headers, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, Vintage Air

-2002 Impala LS - Medium Bronzemist Metallic, every option except engine block heater

<A HREF="http://www.furman.edu/~jtrauner" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see my Camaro and my parents' 2002 Impala LS.
</A>

[This message has been edited by jrt67ss350 (edited 05-07-2002).]
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 02, 01:57 PM
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Hey Justin, how the hell did you get the blower motor out without removing the fender.

You sent me the same write up awhile back and would like to put it on my website and give you credit if you don't mind.

I am trying to complile some of the obscure QA's

-Funk
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old May 7th, 02, 05:16 PM
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Funk,

I'll put together my "experiences" installing my VA unit for you and email them to you. You can certainly put them on your website. I have two big tests on Thursday, so it'll probably be Thursday night or Friday before I get to it...but I'll be in touch.

------------------
Justin Traunero
[email protected]
The Club - GM Muscle Cars of the Carolinas

-1967 Camaro SS350 clone - 350/TH-350 with shift kit, CompCams XE268H, Dynomax Jet-Hot headers, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, Vintage Air

-2002 Impala LS - Medium Bronzemist Metallic, every option except engine block heater

<A HREF="http://www.furman.edu/~jtrauner" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see my Camaro and my parents' 2002 Impala LS.
</A>
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old May 8th, 02, 07:07 PM
 
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I have a 68 Factory A/C car. I am going with a Vintage Air unit, and had a couple questions. I know that the heater box is removed as part of this project. Does the filler plate cover both the round hole for the blower fan and the rectangular hole for the airflow? I was also wondering about the vacuum controlled vents in the cowl and kick panel. Are these left hooked up after the install. i.e. Is the vent still operational, or are these closed off?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old May 9th, 02, 04:39 PM
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Justin....

Can you give a brief synopsis on how you get the blower motor out without removing the fender?

That is the one reason I haven't tackled this project yet on my '67 non-a/c car.

Thanks,

David


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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 02, 04:15 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jrt67ss350:
I installed a vintage air system in my originally non-A/C 67 at the end of last summer. I also added the original type A/C vents in the dash so the car looks like it came with A/C from the factory inside...sounds like this is what you want to do. First off, I bought the Astro vents (the outer two vents) from Vintage Air. If you buy them from Vintage Air (they cost the same as if you buy them from a Camaro parts house - about $80 for the pair)
&lt;snip&gt;
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was wondering about those air vents - quite expensive. Classic Industries will piece them out for about $80 as stated. However, they have an astro ventalation kit which includes the ball vents, escutions, and seals for about $13. I'm going to go read it again to be sure. I'm not certain if the kit contains all the parts if you're installing the vents, but appear to be complete in terms of restoring old parts. Check it out and let me know if I misread the offer.

Catalog: C2002
Part# Desc. Price
R566 AC Ball Vent Kit $12.95


-dnult
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 02, 04:19 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ramcda:
I have a 68 Factory A/C car. I am going with a Vintage Air unit, and had a couple questions.
&lt;snip&gt;
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't completed the install on my 68 yet, but can answer your questions. The kit comes with block-off panels for both the square opening and the round opening behind the right fender. Also, there are block-off plates for the openings behind the astro vents. The kick panel vents can be left operational. The vintage air system recirculates inside air.

-dnult



[This message has been edited by dnult (edited 05-10-2002).]
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old May 10th, 02, 04:03 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dnult:
Classic Industries will piece them out for about $80 as stated. However, they have an astro ventalation kit which includes the ball vents, escutions, and seals for about $13. I'm going to go read it again
&lt;snip&gt;
Catalog: C2002
Part# Desc. Price
R566 AC Ball Vent Kit $12.95


-dnult
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too good to be true. I just put an order in to classic and found out the $13 Astro vent kit is really $69.95. The sales-person said is was a catalog error.

-dnult
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old May 11th, 02, 02:40 PM
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Ok guys, sorry I haven't posted my tips until now...we had a big storm in the area a few nights ago and it fried the network controllers on campus here, so I haven't had internet access until today.

Ok, like it's been said before, you have to remove the blower motor and heater duct in the engine compartment when installing the Vintage Air system. The directions that come with the system tell you that you have to remove the passenger fender in order to remove the heater duct and blower motor. In a factory non-A/C car you can manage to remove these parts without removing the fender, but on a factory A/C car, you're going to have to remove the fender because there isn't going to be enough room. Ok, here's what I did to remove the duct and blower motor from my car:

1) I removed the bolts that attach the inner fender to the outer fender around the wheelwell opening, the two bolts that attach the inner fender to the outer fender in the top of the wheelwell, and the three bolts that attach the inner fender to the support bracket that bolts to the body at the back of the inner fender. I also removed the two bolts that attach the outer fender to the body behind the wheelwell (accessed from under the car.

2) After removal of these bolts, I pulled out the bottom of the fender enough so that I could get the inner fender free of the outer fender (I used a block of wood wedged between the outer fender and the body to keep the fender away from the body). This allowed me some clearance so that I could push down on the back of the inner fender inside the engine compartment to gain some more clearance at the back of the fender.

3) I then used assorted wrenches, nut drivers, sockets with U-joints, etc to get the small screws out that hold the blower motor to the duct up inside the fender. I then pulled the motor out of the duct and turned it around inside the fender so that the fan is facing the engine compartment. There isn't enough clearance to get the motor/fan assembly out of the fender, so you have to remove the plastic fan blade from the motor. You can then remove the fan and then the motor from inside the engine comparment.

4) With the fan and motor removed, you now have enough clearance to get to the one heater duct bolt in the fender cavity. After removing all of the heater duct nuts and bolts, you can remove the heater duct....you'll have to move it all around in order to get it out of the fender cavity. It takes a bit of force, but you can get it it without messing anything up.

5) Then just replace all of the bolts you removed from the fender and inner fender.

This way is much easier than removing the fender in my opinion. You don't have to remove the hood and get it lined back up, and you don't have to realign the difficult fender alignment points. Took me probably an hour to get the motor and duct out and get everything bolted back up. It's not hard...the hardest part was getting the blower motor fan off of the motor...it just didn't want to budge, and you are at a wierd angle to remove it. Took me a little while, but I finally got it off.

I did this on a 67...68s should be the same. I don't know if this will be possible on a 69 since the outer and inner fenders are shaped a little bit differently. I say give it a shot, and if you can't get the parts out, you can always remove the fender.

ramcda, the VA unit will make your a/c vacuum controlled vents inoperable, since the unit does not take in air from outside the car...it only utilizes interior recirculation.

dnult, I would buy the vents from VA. If you buy them from someone else, you'll have to spend more money to buy the adapters from VA and then modify the vents yourself...save yourself the trouble and just get the vents from VA when you order the system. They are very nice looking vents...very high quality.

Also, I highly recommend the $50 optional polished compressor. Looks very cool in the engine compartment.

------------------
Justin Traunero
[email protected]
The Club - GM Muscle Cars of the Carolinas

-1967 Camaro SS350 clone - 350/TH-350 with shift kit, CompCams XE268H, Dynomax Jet-Hot headers, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, Vintage Air

-2002 Impala LS - Medium Bronzemist Metallic, every option except engine block heater

<A HREF="http://www.furman.edu/~jtrauner" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see my Camaro and my parents' 2002 Impala LS.
</A>

[This message has been edited by jrt67ss350 (edited 05-11-2002).]
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old May 14th, 02, 04:01 PM
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I just removed my blower motor and housing and have some suggestions. I unbolted everything without doing anything to the fender. You have to move the fender some to slide out the housing, more on that later. There are 4 small bolts that hold the blower motor to the housing. From the engine compartment you can remove these using a small 1/4 in ratchet. Use your left hand while facing the front of the car. Once the motor is lose you can just set it forward up on the inner fender. Prior to this I unbolted the plastic impeller from the motor by accessing the impeller from inside the kickpanel. I do not believe you need to unbolt the impeller but I did. I think there is room over the inner fender to set both attached. I set the impeller up on the inner fender also. From inside the kickpanel you can see the two bolts that hold the housing to the firewall. You need a mirror to see the upper bolt. Shoot these bolts with wd40. From inside the kickpanel I ground off the tip of the lower bolt with my air cut off wheel and then cut a slot in the bolt end. I inserted a screwdriver into the slot and screwed in (which was really out ) the bolt till it fell on the floor. The upper bolt was too high to use this method. From the engine compartment with your left hand you can just barely touch the head of the upper bolt. You will notice a gap between the top of the fender and the firewall where you can see you finger from above. Replace your finger with a nut driver and keep looking through the gap to guide the nut driver back on the bolt head. Access is tight here and it was hard to get a good grip but the wd40 helped beaking looose the bolt.
With everything unbolted the housing will not slide out unless you create more space between the inner and outer fender.
My inner and outer fenders happen to be fiberglassed together. (that's another story) I had to unbolt the four rear fender bolts and the five inner fender bolts to rotate the fender slighty to allow room to slide out the housing. I believe if you could just drop the inner fender (which I couldn't) you cold create enough room to get the housing out. This process took about 2 1/2 hours taking my time.

------------------
68/Z28,35O LT1
RICHMOND 5 SP,
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old May 14th, 02, 05:14 PM
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Which process - writting it up or doing the work?
I hate to have this sound wrong but, either you have very small hands or you are just determinded to do things another way. I really think that removing the fender (@15 min. total) and doing the work with this stuff out of the way was very easy and we didn't have to 'grind and slot' nothin'.
I quess it's good to hear other ways of doing stuff - but I always hope it will be easier and take less time.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old May 14th, 02, 05:51 PM
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I'd like to know what world your Camaro was built in that it only takes 15 minutes to remove and replace a fender including hood removal and realignment!!!! I've replaced both front fenders on my 67 and removing the blower motor and housing without removing the fender was a whole lot easier in my opinion. By the way, I didn't have to grind or slot anything....I didn't want to remove the kickpanel because they are a pain too....mine are all sealed up with some god-awful non-original adhesive. I got to all bolts easily once the motor was removed. My method allows you to drop the inner fender enough that you don't have to remove the rear fender bolts and rotate the fender around.

------------------
Justin Traunero
[email protected]
The Club - GM Muscle Cars of the Carolinas

-1967 Camaro SS350 clone - 350/TH-350 with shift kit, CompCams XE268H, Dynomax Jet-Hot headers, Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust, Vintage Air

-2002 Impala LS - Medium Bronzemist Metallic, every option except engine block heater

<A HREF="http://www.furman.edu/~jtrauner" TARGET=_blank>Click here to see my Camaro and my parents' 2002 Impala LS.
</A>
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