Matching #s - Team Camaro Tech
Tech 2002 General Tech questions from 2002
Replies ONLY, no new topics.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 02, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 43
When someone is selling a car and advertises it as a #s matching car what does this imply in you guys opinion?
dzjim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 02, 06:01 PM
DjD
Retired
Dennis
 
DjD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Fortuna, CA
Posts: 26,435
Garage
To the seller it could mean anything from the engine being orig to the complete driveline being orig to everything from belts and hoses being orig. It's very subjective and I would like to think the major pieces are orig if someone claims matching numbers.

------------------
...Dennis
"The '69, the '96 & the club"
DjD is offline  
post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 02, 06:09 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 235
Ed Ernst is offline  
 
post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 5th, 02, 06:32 PM
Senior Tech
Neal
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Jackson, Tennessee
Posts: 193
To me it implies just what is said and does not mean it is original.
NealM is offline  
post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 02, 01:33 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: CT
Posts: 389
When I bought my 69 hard top, it was advertised as partial numbers matching.

Well, the 2.73 rear and PG tranny were orig but the engine had been swapped from a 6 cyl to a 327. So, I ask, what good is a numbers matching rear and tranny this case???

I don't care though as I LOVE my car and I'm doing a frame-off to build it the way I want it!

It's my car, right!

Take care,
Rob
RFrenette is offline  
post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 02, 03:54 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Austin TX USA
Posts: 501
I've learned "Numbers Matching" usaully does not mean "original drivetrain". It typically means that it has the correct casting numbers for that yr and model.
Sleepy-69 is offline  
post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 02, 04:55 AM
DjD
Retired
Dennis
 
DjD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Fortuna, CA
Posts: 26,435
Garage
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sleepy-69:
I've learned "Numbers Matching" usaully does not mean "original drivetrain". It typically means that it has the correct casting numbers for that yr and model.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't that be date correct but not matching numbers? In the case of an engine block it has to have the correct partial vin to be numbers matching. Going back to my orig post, some sellers take liberty with the term.
DjD is offline  
post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 02, 06:42 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Austin TX USA
Posts: 501
I agree...the term has several definitions. Date codes and VIN's add to the confusion.

Some would say there's a diff between "numbers matching" and "original drivetrain".

If a 69 X-77 car has a 69 DZ-302 engine with the wrong date and VIN, is the engine "numbers mathching"?

Some would say yes...it has the correct engine casting and "matches"...others would say no, the date and VIN don't "match".

What if the block had the correct date code but wrong VIN. What if the block had been decked and there's no VIN?

In the end, pay little attention to what's said in an ad and do your own homework.

Buyer beware.
Sleepy-69 is offline  
post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 6th, 02, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 43
Seller beware if he rips me off.
dzjim is offline  
post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 02, 02:10 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mechanicsville,VA
Posts: 264
I have a "numbers matching" '71 corvette.The last five digits of the "vin" # are stamped on the engine block. Can't recall right now, but I think there is another place on the vehicle that the "number" appears.
67camss/rs is offline  
post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 02, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 43
OK now that you've got me thourghly confused... So most parts on a 1st gen camaro ect. are date coded and if these parts are the correct date code there is no real way to tell if they are original to a particular car or not. While other parts have a partial vin # stamped on them which will verify their originality. If this is correct which parts have the partial vin # stamped on? Please bear with me I'm not stupid, just uninformed. Anyway I love this stuff and appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge. Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by dzjim (edited 06-07-2002).]
dzjim is offline  
post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 7th, 02, 01:04 PM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 235
If this is correct which parts have the partial vin # stamped on? --- The factory stamped the engine block and transmission case with a partial VIN. Parts installed on the engine (heads, alternator, water pump, etc.) as a general rule will precede the assembly date of the motor located on the pad at the right front of the block. And as another general rule, all part/assembly dates precede the build date on the trim tag (although exceptions exist to every rule).


So most parts on a 1st gen camaro ect. are date coded and if these parts are the correct date code there is no real way to tell if they are original to a particular car or not. --- As well as the appropriate casting # for a particular application, that is correct and block/VIN stampings can be duplicated as well.

I've followed both your posts (I have a 69 Z, also) and from the #'s you gave, you have a car that has/had some neat options. From the info, the rear axle has been changed. Are there other parts you are concerned about? Was the car represented as #'s match? This site is here to help.



[This message has been edited by Ed Ernst (edited 06-07-2002).]
Ed Ernst is offline  
post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 02, 02:41 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 43
Thank you Ed. This site has already been a big help. This site is like an interactive book and you guys being, the author of this book amaze me with your knowledge. To answer your questions, yes Ed the car was sold as matchin #s. I found the car on Hemmings. Heres how the ad read.

FOR SALE CAMARO: 1969 Z-28, hugger orange, white stripes, black interior, power steering, brakes, console with gauges, 8000 rpm tach, spoilers, bumper gaurds, cowl induction, tinted glass, AM radio, numbers match, excellent restored, real Z-28 $xxxxx PH xxx-xxx-xxxx

When I spoke to the man on the phone I asked specifically was the block, heads, intake, carb, tranny and rearend original to the car? He informed me they were. I now know the tranny and rearend are wrong for this car. I have the # off of the front of the block (VO211DZ). Where is the # with the partial vin located on the block, heads, intake and carb? Are there other #s and locations I should check and if so where?
Don't get me wrong this a beautiful car and I'm sure it's a Z but I feel as if I was mislead. I'm still in touch with the guy and hoping to work it out. Thanks again for your help.
dzjim is offline  
post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 02, 03:44 AM
Senior Tech
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Metro Chicago
Posts: 235
The location of the V0211DZ is the head pad. Somewhere in December68/January69 the partial VIN was moved from the head to above the oil filter. Since your block is Feb 11, 1969 look above the oil filter. It's a tough place to get a good look in there. It might be dirty,etc. Some folks have cleaned it up and used some white paint to highlight the #s there, so they can be read easier.

[This message has been edited by Silver69 (edited 06-08-2002).]
Silver69 is offline  
post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old Jun 8th, 02, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
Tech Team
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 43
Looking right above the oil filter there are three lines of #s
371
386
02N
My vin is 124379N612461
The #s on the block read in the order I gave but upside down with the 371 # being on the bottom. It doesn't seem right to me. what do you think?
dzjim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Team Camaro Tech forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address.
NOTE we receive a lot of registrations with bad email addresses. IF you do not receive your confirmation email you will not be able to post. contact support and we will try and help.
Be sure you enter a valid email address and check your spam folder as well.



Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome