Vortec Heads - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 26th, 02, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Guy's I came across an interesting comparison in Super Chevy. They are doing this Danger mouse series where they upgrade a mouse and then dyno it. In test 12 they have a 350 with comp cams 262, Edelbrock RPM intake, Speed Demon 750 carb, and most importantly stock cammel hump heads with the small valves. It produced 386 hp and 438 tq. Peak tq was at 4000 RPM and peak hp at 5000 hp.

Then on test 14 they take the same engine and add vortec heads. Here's what they got. Peak hp 409 at 5,600 RPM and peak tq 435 at 4600 RPM.

With the vortecs at 4000 RPM the tq was 426 and the hp at 5000 RPM was 400.

The bottom line is; at the RPMs of a street engine. The cammel humps produced 12 more tq and only 14 less hp. Yes the Vortecs produced more top end hp but for a street engine is this really required.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 01:48 AM
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Hey Rick,

I've been following Danger Mouse because I'm continuelly trying to stay on top of what's what in combinations for my 350ci. When and if I go to build it, it's these articles and combinations that folks here use and can show performance numbers for that will help me decide on parts.

I'm sure everyone agrees that has done any research into small block heads for the street that the Vortec is just a decent replacement for lesser GM castings. For the price, the Vortecs are a great addition to a build-up if you have nothing else to use.
I've used the Fuelie (camel hump) heads with small valves on 350's before and I was VERY impressed with their low and mid range performance. That's one reason I bought another set to go with the 350ci I want to put together for my Camaro.

I believe those Camel Humps in the Danger Mouse article are untouched as far as porting or cleaning up the bowls. I've never modified those heads before but I'll bet with just a little cleaning up that they'd give stock Vortecs a good run! Maybe even surpass their numbers on the same engine.
Maybe I'll stop trying to sell them to finance the rest of the bodywork!


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Yea Joe kind of makes me wonder if the Vortecs are worth all the hype. If I can get basically the same HP and TQ from a set of cammel humps. A quick check on Ebay show you can get a good set for $500. By the time you get a set of Vortecs modified to fit an older car you'll have $1,000 in them.

I've got a set of cammel humps laying around, the only reason they're not on the car is because of unleaded gas. I might try and modify these and use them for my daily driver.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 07:55 AM
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What makes a camel hump , a camel hump ? Is it the two un-equal height, cast in , bumps on the end of the head ? I would really apprciate seeing a picture if anyone has one. Thanks.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 09:18 AM
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Yeah, mine don't have hardened seats either. But neither did the one's I ran on a '70 Chevelle I had in the 80's.

John, I'm not sure but I think there is more than one Camel Hump head. The one's I have now are 3917291 castings. Someone may know.... is there another 'hump' casting?
I can post a shot or two of mine in a couple days. Have to trudge out through the snow to the shed to get one first!
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 12:16 PM
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461's also have the humps, as do some 186's.

Maybe Pdq67 will add to the list.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 27th, 02, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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These are basically the cammel humps: 3782461, 3890462, 3917291, 3927186, 3991492. Also 040 and 041 heads are not cammel humps but have the same chamber and sometimes are refered to as cammel humps. There may be more but this is the list I'm aware of.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 02, 08:30 AM
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Whoa guys, you completely missed something in the dyno results.

Look at WHERE the peak numbers happened! The Vortecs made a bit less pk TQ, but it was some 600RPM sooner! Personally, I'd rather have the 426 at 4000RPM rather than the 435 at 4600RPM. Don't just look at the peak numbers.

What this shows you is a more efficient combustion, which is obvious by the advanced design of the chamber. Hell, if you choose a cam that would make the peak at the same RPM as the camel humps did, the Vortec would definetely come out on top! Not only that, with the fast combustion, you can run more compression without detonation, which means even more power than the camel humps.

Sure, you could put in much $$ or hours into porting camel hump heads. But face the facts, it uses an old style chamber that doesn't compare to World Sportsman heads or Vortecs. Camel humps just aren't worth it anymore.

Porting can be done on the Vortecs. There are two areas on the intake that can use work, and the entire exhaust side can use some work also. More power can be had with the Vortecs.

I replaced my camel hump heads (that have large valves, bowl work, and port match) with my unmodified Vortec heads. I could instantly feel the difference, and my ET improved considerably. Both used the RPM intake, and I sold both the heads and the intake on ebay to break even on costs.

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Matt Jones
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 28th, 02, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Matt, you may be right about matching a better cam to the Vortcs but you read the numbers wrong. The torque came in sooner with the cammel humps not the Vortecs.

I thought this dyno comparison was kind of interesting because for the $1,000 a set of Vortecs cost they only got 23 more hp and all of it above 4400 RPM. The cammel humps produced more hp and tq below 4400 RPM.

How many of us street guy's run our engines above 4400 RPM enough to actually use the extra 23 hp.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 02, 03:15 AM
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What are the differences in the intake port volume between the two heads. The shift in torque was probably due to a larger port volume on the vortech heads. I think Silver69's assesments of vortec advantages are accurate. By selecting a better match of intake and cam, those vortecs will probably give much better results, especially at higher compression ratios or with a stroked motor. That's the tricky thing about engine building - you've got to match components to get peak performance where you want it. Having said all that though, this is an interesting perspective for those who are considering a weekend bolt-on instead of designing a new motor.

-dnult
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old Nov 29th, 02, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Dnult, you're probably right and that's what the magazine said when they tried a different set of heads and lost power.

I think all this stuff showsthe Vortecs are not as much of a bolt and go head as some have said. You need to think and research the match through.
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