Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 24th, 07, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

My 68 has a 327 with a 3 core brass radiator. It is in good shape. I am also planning on using an aftermarket A/C unit. I wanted to change over to an electric fan and shroud. I am wondering what is the minimum cfm fan needed to keep the car cool in the midwest heat. Single vs dual fan and shroud recommendations would be helpful. Also any recommendations on what degree thermostat to run. Will the 3 core radiator be enough? I have seen systems for 400 to 1000 dollars. I have also seen fans on ebay for 40 to 60 dollars. I know you "get what you pay for", but I also want the most "bang for my buck"!!

Thanks,

Tim
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 07, 10:43 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

I have a single fan that puts out 3985cfm. I don't think you will have a problem with that fan.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 07, 11:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

What brand is it? Where did you get it? How much was it? What about a shroud?
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 07, 01:33 PM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

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Originally Posted by lightn 68 View Post
My 68 has a 327 with a 3 core brass radiator. It is in good shape. I am also planning on using an aftermarket A/C unit. I wanted to change over to an electric fan and shroud.
Why? The stock fan/clutch and shroud will move a LOT more air through the full face of the core than any electric fan.


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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 25th, 07, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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Tim
 
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

I am only running a 327 in my 68 and trying to save a few hp by running an electric fan. I read a stock fan without a clutch can use as much as 30 hp to run. I also read a clutch fan only uses 8 to 16 hp depending on size. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place to save a few hp. What do ya think?

Tim
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 07, 05:20 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

It is a Zirgo. I got it from Mustang Depot believe it or not. It does not require a shroud and it freed up quite a bit of horses. It only uses something like 10amps to run. It cost $159.95. They make two 16" fans. If you're going to get it make sure you buy part #ZFU16.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 07, 05:25 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

Go to Painless Wiring and get there fan switch kit part #30103. It turns the fan on at 185 and off at 170 and make sure you have a 180 degree thermostat. I put the fan switch in front port on the driver side of the intake manifold. Just to the right of the thermostat housing.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 26th, 07, 04:07 PM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

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Originally Posted by lightn 68 View Post
I am only running a 327 in my 68 and trying to save a few hp by running an electric fan. I read a stock fan without a clutch can use as much as 30 hp to run. I also read a clutch fan only uses 8 to 16 hp depending on size. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place to save a few hp. What do ya think?

Tim
Why try and out-engineer the GM engineers from a catalog? The original system was designed and developed by specialists, and worked just fine; a 3-core stock radiator, shroud, and thermostatically-controlled fan/clutch will do the job, and the clutch disengages over 3500 rpm.

I think the guys who write the ad copy for electric fans, electric water pumps, and serpentine belt systems all went to the same school; if they went bass fishing, they'd tell you about the Great White Shark they caught.


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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 07, 04:59 AM
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Charlie
 
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

If he wants to use an electric fan then it's his perogative. Who are we/you to tell him different. I personally like electric fans. They free up power and look better than a big bulky clutch anf fan protruding off the front of the motor.

Charlie Knudsen 67 Camaro RS/SS 350 TKO 600, 4.10's, AFR 195 Street Heads, Comp 270H, Rhoads Lifters, Crane Ignition, Pertronix Dizzy, Performer RPM Q-Jet, Heavily Modified Q-Jet, Hooker Comp Headers, MagnaFlow 2 1/2", 144 Decibles(Alpine CDA-7998 Head Unit, RF X7 and RF 750X Amps, MB Quart Mid's & High's, Kicker L7 12" Solo Barics)
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 07, 07:00 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

Charlie, I think John is trying to delve into his cooling issue and trying to keep him stock looking as well. John Z is one of the most respected members here and in CRG as he worked the Norwood Plant building the first Gen. camaros. Tim knows he is free to do what he wants with his car of course. John and others have helped alot of folks that got caught up in the chrome and bling of catalogs when their issues were easily solved with their original setup properly tuned. I consider John's replies as 'gold' and they are always in a congenial manner as well.
I hope that helps explain where John is coming from and why we welcome his input when he comes to visit us here

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 07, 05:33 AM
 
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

If you want a nice electric fan look at the Flex-a-lite black magic blade part #160.Fan comes mounted in a shroud and with adjustable thermostat and ac relay.We have one of these mounted on a 84 mustang down at the shop and it is nice.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 07, 08:59 PM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

I ran a clutch fan in my '67 with no problems until I swapped in a '96 LT1 which has no provision for a mechanical fan. Otherwise a clutch fan would be my choice.

After some research and shopping, I measured the fan in my son's '96 Cougar. I'm not positive, but I think it's the same a Lincoln Mark VIII fan. Since I think my son would miss his fan, I bought my own from a boneyard. It adapted easily to my 23" radiator (my car has factory A/C). It would be too wide for a 21" radiator. I don't know the cfm rating, but on high speed it will definitely move some air.

Current draw is a little high, as I recall ~35A on high speed, but with the 140A alternator that came with the LT1 this is not a problem for me. I'm using two relays in parallel for each speed and using the computer to turn them on and off.

So far, so good. If the car is at any kind of speed at all, the fan doesn't come on at all even in 90*+ weather. If I'm idling around town, low speed comes on as necessary. The only time I've seen high speed is when I was running it fairly hard on my smog dyno to do some tuning. Low speed comes on at a little under 200 and high speed comes on at 212.

I don't have the A/C plumbed in and working yet, but I don't anticipate any issues.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 07, 05:09 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

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Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
Why? The stock fan/clutch and shroud will move a LOT more air through the full face of the core than any electric fan.

While you know I love ya John .....and I have gleaned a myriad of information from you in the past...... and you know I respect your input big time, but this is just simply not true anymore about mechanical fans per se. If you are talking about the tiny/cheap aftermarket fans.. then right on! But, there are great alternatives out there that make the mechanical fans look pretty lame.
For example, the Mark VIII fan will move in excess of 4000cfms and there is no mechanical fan that will come close to that output! How do I know this?.. I know the OE ratings of the BB seven bladed fan and moreover have even tested these stock fans on my own.

FWIW, Electric fans are fast becoming the defacto standard in the OE industry regardless of application. This is because the electric fan will out perform the mechanical ones at idle and slow cruising speeds, are far more controllable than the mechanical ones.. and can be used in tighter footprints.

I do agree however that if one has a pretty stock application here that the original mechanical fan and shroud system should suffice.. well sort of? As you know.... the problem with most applications here.. .everyone is adding horsepower, air conditioning and moreover the need and want to cruise in all kinds of traffic laden situations with the air a blow'in and keep those enigne temps in check! Design specs in "yesteryears applications" just was marginal at best, so cooling could be an issue with the change in the basics here. The big upgrade of course is the issuance of big aluminum radiators and this will indeed take the pressure off the air moving system to a certain extent because of the enhanced efficiency of the radiator.

Even Ford and Mercedes (these are the manufactures that I have personal contact and knowledge of) have moved their "tarmac/street" or ambient design temperature specification over 20 degrees (up) over the last 20 years! This is a behemouth target for the cooling and air conditioning system to adequately perform under! This performance standard(s) require large output (and controllable) primary and/or secondary electric fans to meet the specfication and all of this is due to more crowded traffic situations that produce higher tarmac temps.. which means the need for higher efficiency cooling systems... and not to mention lower "vent" temps inside... which translates to more heat being removed at the coil....which also travels thur the radiator system as well. It's a double whammy in that department!

And moreover....and lastly......offering empirical proof of my point(s) here..... the very Dodge Charger RT (ladened with abundant horsepower and great air conditioning) that sits in my driveway has only one fan system.. and it's electric! The output... a whopping 6600 CFMs!

Just my two sense there JohnZ, but I would love to hear your point here as always!

Steve "Jack'stands" Jack

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 07, 06:41 AM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

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Originally Posted by HOTRODSRJ View Post
...FWIW, Electric fans are fast becoming the defacto standard in the OE industry regardless of application. This is because the electric fan will out perform the mechanical ones at idle and slow cruising speeds, are far more controllable than the mechanical ones.. and can be used in tighter footprints....
While you know I love ya Steve.....and I have gleaned a myriad of information from you in the past...... and you know I respect your input big time...

If you look at heavy duty V8 applications where cooling is a BIG issue and space is available... SUV's and pickups. You'll find a big mechanical clutch fan, (at least on GM and Mopar, I've never seen under the hood of a ferd)





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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old Jul 1st, 07, 01:12 PM
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Re: Electric fan for 3 core radiator and A/C

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While you know I love ya Steve.....and I have gleaned a myriad of information from you in the past...... and you know I respect your input big time...

If you look at heavy duty V8 applications where cooling is a BIG issue and space is available... SUV's and pickups. You'll find a big mechanical clutch fan, (at least on GM and Mopar, I've never seen under the hood of a ferd)
Hey.. I had no idea you felt that way Jim! That makes me feel great! But, things may not appear as you may think ? And,.... I agree that you will find many clutched applications where you mentioned. Just as racing, towing and special applications do NOT translate to the "street" applications very well. Completely different set of objectives really for both.

Okay.. let me explain. Commonly "heavy duty" cooling applications (and this includes RVs etc) you will find the mechanical fan turning at higher rpms because their loads require higher hp expenditure all the time and overtime. For example, my Dodge 1500 Ram Quad's clutch fan would be next to impossible to disengage during heavy loads making for whopping cfms at 3000rpms!!!! But, moreover they have the upfront room and footprint to enable the use of a "heavy duty" mechanical fan and the costs of these already tooled products is low. And, Dodge does use an auxillary cooling fan set up for all their trucks.. and this is both for air and engine primary cooling. Believe it or not.. I am not familiar with the GM set up as much.

FWIW, Dodge and Ford will switch to all electrics in their trucks by 2010! This is because the front ends will have change with the new CAFE rules.. looking for lower CD rates and mass and thus efficiency.. trust me. So, give it time.. the electrics will make their mark there too.

Steve "Jack'stands" Jack

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