R12 Or 134a - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 07, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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R12 Or 134a

I have a 67 RS with factory air. It was converted to 134 before I bought it.It cools good, but on really hot days its not going to freeze you out for sure. I want to go back to R12 based on what I found from research and asking people. Bottom line , it is supposed to cool better. The old systems were not made for 134.Any reasons not to go with r12 other can cost ?
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 07, 01:33 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

R12 has not been produced in this country since the clean air act was enacted. Production of R12 in this country halted effective January 1. 1996. By the end of the 1994 model year virtually every auto manufacturer had converted their systems from R12 to R134A....Obtaining R12 today requires an act of God, Allah, Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Moses and Congress combined. Good Luck trying to obtain it legally.

Don't take my word for it. I did some research on it for you. you can confirm it here http://www.r12.net/ or here http://www.heinleys.com/a_c_and_freon.htm

FWIW, I worked in the car business from 1989-1998. The place I worked at and others I knew stocked up on R-12 but after R-12 was halted a repair facility was limited if I recall correctly to how much they could have purchased (at that time). I think you will have better luck getting Goodyear Bias Ply tires to fit a a Z06 Corvette, 2007 Lamborghini or Dodge Viper than you will buying R-12.

Bottom Line: You can't buy it legally anymore and that is why I would stick with R134-A.

1) 1969 Camaro RS 396 TH 400, 12 bolt 3:73 sold 1994
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2) 1984 Z28, 5.0 H.O. T-Tops, G92 3:73, sold 1994
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 07, 01:53 PM
 
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Valid points - however you're only going to need 3 cans of R12. My '67 with original 40 year old evaporator & condensor has never needed a recharge. Center vent temp is 48 degrees. Since the R12 DOES work better than R134 I say go for it.... Just another opinion.
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 07, 02:29 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

To answer your question...NO, no reason not to go to R-12. If you have a good supply, I say do it.. Nothing like an R-12 system puttin out 29 - 33 degree air.
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 7th, 07, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: R12 Or 134a

I have a friend who has plenty of r12. Also our local repair shop has it. The repair shop guy doesnt encourage using it , but he will. The other guy would probably give me a few cans he has so much. I would like to try it for better cooling. They say it doesnt find its way out of the system as easy too. The molecules are much bigger than those of 134.
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 05:02 AM
 
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Re: R12 Or 134a

You are correct, 67...R12 is less prone to leaks for that reason. Just make sure you evacuate it well and have it nice and tight (no leaks). Im definitely putting R12 in my Firebird and am putting it into a friends 68 SS he just restored, simply cuz it cools better and the system was designed for it
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 05:45 AM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Quote:
Originally Posted by South Side Goons & Hitmen View Post
Obtaining R12 today requires an act of God, Allah, Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus Christ, Moses and Congress combined. Good Luck trying to obtain it legally.

Bottom Line: You can't buy it legally anymore and that is why I would
stick with R134-A.
Or just go to e-bay and get as much as you want. (for a price)

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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 05:51 AM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDJr View Post
You are correct, 67...R12 is less prone to leaks for that reason. Just make sure you evacuate it well and have it nice and tight (no leaks). Im definitely putting R12 in my Firebird and am putting it into a friends 68 SS he just restored, simply cuz it cools better and the system was designed for it
I remember when we lived in Louisiana in the latter 80's it wasn't at all unusual for a good R-12 system to put fog out of the registers with 28 temp in the car and 96 at 98%RH outside. Yup, R-12 is superior. Been watchin your thread for the guys to come along and say 134's just as good w/ oversized condensers. Oversized condensers may make 134 acceptable to some but don't change the temp/pressure relationships do they?

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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 05:58 AM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Quote:
Originally Posted by copter View Post
Or just go to e-bay and get as much as you want. (for a price)
Wish I could do multi-quote
Re, the legality of R-12 and copter's reply

I quote former Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall
" NEVER underestimate the capacity of the American people to disregard a bad law"

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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 07:52 AM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Be sure you do a triple evac to the system before filling with R-12. Right afterremoving the 134, evac it and charge system with dry nitrogen and let it set at 175-200 PSI and check for leaks. Use soapy water. Backflush the condensor.

If you can leave the system pressurized for a week, even better, check for leaks everyday. A/C manifolds, the gauge set do leak, quality is the name.

Then, evac the system. This will remove all of the 134 and a good check for leaks. Fill with R-12 by weight from the label.

By sure to check the hose condition. Hate to see a good system go bad.

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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 12:42 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

You guys know how to fire me UP!
I used to argue on-line with the EPA about the stupidity of the Montreal Protocol. Talk about a lame-*** law. We send up a satellite to look for ozone depletion. Pow! There's a HOLE over Antarctica. Must have been caused by CFC's being released in the U.S.! Let's ban R12. That third rate scientist that was supported by Dupont must be right! (Margret Thatcher and GB1) Remember, Dupont's patent on R12 expired. They stood to make billions by eliminating the competition. I could go on for hours.
Solution? I stocked up in the Caribbean. They make tons of it. Cheap too. And they are LAUGHING at us.
But when my R12 ran out I had to get my EPA certification to buy 'interim' gases. I can get R12 legally but it's about twice as much as other gases.
The only greater fraud ever perpetrated against the American people is religion. (well, maybe the trumped-up price of oil too) Told you I was fired-up!

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 12:56 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

get em Fred!

My Dad was a chemist whose materials made it onto the SR-71 Blackbird and the Apollo missions. Talk about getting red-assed, all you had to do was mention R-12 and the ozone layer. His contention was how to heck is a heavy molecule like that going to ever make it to that altitiude....... and how quickly it deteriorates or reacts or something Idunno etc etc etc. I just wish I had stocked up.
96 cents a can all day long in 1990. They say the bottoms rust out of the cans though.

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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 01:24 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

theres a new one coming....R-154b its just as cool as R-12c ever was....

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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 02:09 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Harley, do you have a link for info? It's kinda good that I learn about it seeing as how I'm suppose to know what I'm talking about.
Tim, thanks for the support. You know, I presented the 'heavier-than-air' argument to the EPA. They said that R12 just sort of tumbles around in the wind and gets blow up to and beyond stratospheric hight. Uh huh, and Mustangs are cooler than Camaro's.

One owner 69 Camaro,(yep, bought it new
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RS SS Hugger Orange, L88, 4:10's tru-tack posi, ducted hood, Endura, spoilers.
TH400 (CX) with Coan 8" converter, GV-OD, 8 track still on console and best et 10.495,
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128.79mph 1.428 60'
All with 1960's stuff. (except tires and converter)
+ MT Super Scavenger headers & 3" full exhaust with X pipe. 3700 lbs. with me in it.
1000cfm AED and HD Harold-Lunati SR, 725 lift with shaft rockers too.
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old Jul 8th, 07, 02:17 PM
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Re: R12 Or 134a

Can you wait til I get to work? I think its in one of my Navy 'All Hands' or my "Approach" Magazine. If I remember right its used in the Vapor Cycle Systems in E-2C aircraft for RADR cooling and AM/AN/AW-67/76 Weather RADR cooling.....I hadnt heard about it till recently. Me being the electrician/VCS/RADR tech...helps for me to know this also. hehehe

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Thanks Chief.
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