Radiator recommendation?? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 24th, 17, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Bruce
 
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Radiator recommendation??

Hello all,

Replaced my base 327 with a strong street 383 with about 500 hp currently, will eventually be boosted to 600+ HP. Currently has the stock 2 core radiator, runs OK around town, runs on the hot side on the highway, up to about 210 driving easy with AC off. I'm concerned this leaves me no wiggle room. It has a 180 deg thermostat.

It has a high flow 15" electric fan with a perfectly fitting shroud. Low speed is on always (SW Florida), kicks high speed on at 185. I have a separate tranny cooler in series, and a 10" fan that runs always on the AC coil - again, it's always on as I live in SW FL.

I was considering changing the radiator to a 4 core, but read online that an aluminum 2 core with 1" wide rows cools better. I know copper conducts heat better than AL.

Need some guidance please?? Current engine only has 100 miles, I'm afraid that if I drag it or auto cross it, it will overheat as I have NO wiggle room. Again, the engine is NOT even broken in so I haven't driven it hard. I even put some water wetter into the radiator.

I'm told the original engine mount fan and shroud cool best, so that is always an option.

Any thoughts based on prior experience???

Thanks!

EDIT: also have a performance t-stat that I confirmed works properly and a high flow water pump.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 03:09 AM
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Matt
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Bruce, you are right on point with your radiator choice. A Two row aluminum radiator with 1" tubes will really make a difference compared to what you have now. Aftermarket aluminum radiators are available with up to 1 1/2" tubes. I have and recommend Griffin radiatiors. I have a two row 1 1/4" tube aluminum Griffin radiator in front of my 550 horsepower big block and my temperature never gets above 180 down here in Florida. I can idle in traffic or cruise on the highway at will. I have a 180 thermostat and that is right where my temperature stays. There are several manufacturers of aluminum radiators out there to choose from. My recommendation, experience, and preference is Griffin radiators. They also make direct fit radiators for first gen. Camaro's.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 03:29 AM
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kevin
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

I went with a 3 row champion . less money than the griffin. you will hear all kinds of stories about electric verses mechanical fans
my car/ engine would not run cool with two 10" fans and shroud I bought as a kit for my radiator.
personally I run a heavy duty stainless derale flex fan that keeps the engine at 170* running it hard or sitting at stop lights
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 07:20 AM
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Mike
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Bruce, I also agree that your stock 2 core radiator is not able to meet your current cooling needs. Note: At speeds above 40 mph, your fans and shroud do not effect cooling since you are getting plenty of forced air flow through your radiator.

I have a 500 hp 400 SBC Stroker, and run a 31" wide summit universal fit 2 core - 1" wide tube and I never go over 180 even when the outside temps are in the upper 90s. I also run a 7 blade clutch fan with a shroud.
I didn't care about having the installed radiator and shroud look stock... but that is something you will need to consider with your radiator selection.

A couple of other things to consider...
You may want to install a high volume water pump (if you haven't done so already).

You also want to pull a couple spark plugs and see how they look. A lean condition (whitish color plugs) will cause your engine to run hotter. Adjust carb jetting if needed.

Do you have your vacuum advance connected on your distributor? If not, I recommend you do... but be sure to confirm your total advance with vacuum advance connected does not exceed 48-50 degrees. There are a lot of posts written about the benefits of using the distributor's vacuum advance on a street driven car.... and how you can control the rate and limit the degrees with an adjustable vacuum advance canister and also adding a vacuum advance stop plate.
Note: Above vacuum advance recommendation is for a normally aspirated engine. I am not sure if this applies when some type of "boost" is added (turbos, nitrous, prochargers, etc).
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Last edited by oldschoolchevy; Sep 25th, 17 at 07:33 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 07:58 AM
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

High flow 15" fan ?.....what CFM ?

If you plan on sticking with an electric fan, I would suggest a Taurus or Mark VIII fan...they flow unreal (4000+CFM)

I was having issues with cooling my old SBC 406" and had twin 12's on a 3 core aluminum Champion rad....it did fine cooling unless I was hot lapping at the strip in the heat.. Same rad/fan set-up with my LSx swap...dong just fine.

If you have the $$$.... this is one place I would go over-kill and buy the best I could

Also...as said above. Make sure your tune is right since that can add stress to the cooling system.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

This is what I'm running, I called Derale and they assured me it would cool my engine just fine, it only flows 2,400 CFM, but comes with a almost perfect fit shroud. I only had to slightly modify it. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-16821

It looks almost like it was made for our radiators.

Thank you for the input!
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Bruce
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolchevy View Post
Bruce, I also agree that your stock 2 core radiator is not able to meet your current cooling needs. Note: At speeds above 40 mph, your fans and shroud do not effect cooling since you are getting plenty of forced air flow through your radiator.

I have a 500 hp 400 SBC Stroker, and run a 31" wide summit universal fit 2 core - 1" wide tube and I never go over 180 even when the outside temps are in the upper 90s. I also run a 7 blade clutch fan with a shroud.
I didn't care about having the installed radiator and shroud look stock... but that is something you will need to consider with your radiator selection.

A couple of other things to consider...
You may want to install a high volume water pump (if you haven't done so already).

You also want to pull a couple spark plugs and see how they look. A lean condition (whitish color plugs) will cause your engine to run hotter. Adjust carb jetting if needed.

Do you have your vacuum advance connected on your distributor? If not, I recommend you do... but be sure to confirm your total advance with vacuum advance connected does not exceed 48-50 degrees. There are a lot of posts written about the benefits of using the distributor's vacuum advance on a street driven car.... and how you can control the rate and limit the degrees with an adjustable vacuum advance canister and also adding a vacuum advance stop plate.
Note: Above vacuum advance recommendation is for a normally aspirated engine. I am not sure if this applies when some type of "boost" is added (turbos, nitrous, prochargers, etc).
Thank you for the input. Yes, I have the vacuum advance hooked up, I do not know the total advance, I've been busy working out other bugs, like those *&%$#$% leaky ARP head studs. My God to they leak like a sieve, I even used ARP thread sealer! I had to pull the ones I could easily pull and add 4X laps of teflon tape, then more ARP sealer. They still went in easily with hand pressure only!

I then added the AC Delco radiator sealer tabs, between the 2 I got it under control.

The initial timing is set at 10 degrees, I'll check the total timing this week.

As far as the carb jetting, I don't have an AF meter hooked up yet, I do have one, just not hooked up. The carb is a brand new Edelbrock Thunder 800 CFM carb that came with the top end kit. It should be jetted fairly close stock, but yes, I do need to check it.

As far as the spark plug coloration, the engine only has about 100 Miles on it, so I seriously doubt I can get a good read on that, unless it's way the hell off. It runs too good to be that far off. Very responsive and tons of torque.

EDIT: Yes, I have a high flow water pump and t-stat.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 04:57 PM
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Quote:
EDIT: Yes, I have a high flow water pump and t-stat.
Water flowing too fast can be an issue also....no time to release the heat.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt 69 View Post
Bruce, you are right on point with your radiator choice. A Two row aluminum radiator with 1" tubes will really make a difference compared to what you have now. Aftermarket aluminum radiators are available with up to 1 1/2" tubes. I have and recommend Griffin radiatiors. I have a two row 1 1/4" tube aluminum Griffin radiator in front of my 550 horsepower big block and my temperature never gets above 180 down here in Florida. I can idle in traffic or cruise on the highway at will. I have a 180 thermostat and that is right where my temperature stays. There are several manufacturers of aluminum radiators out there to choose from. My recommendation, experience, and preference is Griffin radiators. They also make direct fit radiators for first gen. Camaro's.
Wellll... I REALLY like the fact that the Griffin has 1 1/4" tubes. But I've read several reviews that said the they have recently started using epoxy to secure the tubes to the tanks, and several people have reported failures at this joint that are apparently not repairable!! Very sad.

So I ended up getting this one. 67-69 CAMARO FIREBIRD ALUMINUM Radiator Direct Fit A MUST READ! | eBay I really would prefer the larger tubes, but just too many people said the Griffin failed when it was just out of warranty and they're apparently NOT repairable.

I chose this one mainly because of this: "Fully TIG welded construction with no epoxy."
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 25th, 17, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Bruce
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUG G View Post
Water flowing too fast can be an issue also....no time to release the heat.
I did think about that, I tried a 160 standard stat, didn't help.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 26th, 17, 03:03 AM
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Matt
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Bruce, for what it's worth, I have used Griffin radiators for years and have never had any issues. I am glad that you settled on a new radiator. It is the right way to go. You won't believe the difference in cooling that the aluminum makes.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 26th, 17, 04:35 AM
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Bruce
 
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Re: Radiator recommendation??

Stick with the original equipment, 3 or 4 core brass/copper with the stock shroud and clutch fan. My fleet has that set up, except 1 of the 9 and have never had a heating issue and 4 are BB, the 69 C-10 has toed my show car all over Texas and Oklahoma with the AC and never had a issue. No real need to re invent this wheel. . . .just an old Camaro Guy talkin
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old Sep 28th, 17, 05:50 AM
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I can't say what's best but, I have a Champion 4 Core with their fan and shroud. Also, at 115* in PHX with the AC on, I sat in traffic at 215-220 Max. Oh, I have a Blueprint 383.

1968, 5 speed, Vintage Air Gen IV, American Auto Wire Update Series, Champion 4 Core Rad, BMR front w/ Koni's, BP Roller 383, Posi 8.2", Solid Frame Bushings
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