Running warm - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 06:34 AM Thread Starter
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Running warm

I have a friend that has a 1969 SS RS 396 375 hp Camaro. He has always run on the warm side. A radiator guy checked his radiator and said it only flows 75 percent. He had a bunch of work done this spring freshened engine, rings bearing and heads, had some issues from running hot. He has a stock 4 core radiator , clutch fan and shroud. He did not want to replace the radiator we advised him to. His fix was to install 2 pusher fans in front of the radiator. Is that a help or detrimental to the air flow is what I would like to know. It was cool out last Sunday say 74 degrees or so in the morning he was crabbing it was still getting warm. I tried to explain to that I thought no matter how much air you blow past the radiator you are still running 25 percent less . Any help with this issue would be greatly appreciated . Thanks Mike

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 06:56 AM
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Re: Running warm

When you say warm just how warm?
Could also be a timing issue.
If he needs a new radiator throwing band aides at it won't fix the problem either.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 07:02 AM
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Re: Running warm

The radiator shop already told him whatís wrong

The pusher fans will make things worse.

Pull the fans off. Rod out at instal a new radiator

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 08:00 AM
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Re: Running warm

Yeah if the flow through the radiator is compromised down to 75% then nothing external is going to make it better. So your advice to him is correct. That said he does have a few options.

These options would include, to have current original radiator "boiled-out" which is a chemical process that soaks the radiator in a vat of caustic solution to remove internal clogs and corrosion. Then if need be the core can be repaired/replaced using the original tanks and rails by a competent real radiator shop. Once his radiator is back to 100% flow all issues will disappear.

Or another option would be to skip the boil-out process and just rebuild the existing radiator without the attempt to clear it. This requires a new core be installed to the existing tanks. Again child's play for a real radiator shop. Cheaper than you would imagine at most shops.

Or last option is to just buy a new radiator. Options for this choice include, buying an OEM Harrison radiator - yes they are still in production using the original molds and methods and stamping now made by/for HBC - Heartbeat City Chevrolet and available at their website and all the big on-line suppliers such as Classic, and Ricks, BUT these heavy copper/brass and lead Harrison's are very expensive but they are a perfect fit. And beautiful to look at as well.

Or if originality by the owner is not required a reproduction OEM style for easy fit, or just a simple generic replacement aluminum of the original size and cores or better will do.

So while he has options they all involve restoring the core to 100% flow either by a process or a replacement or a whole new radiator. Nothing else will fix his overheating issues and why not do it if he has already replaced and fixed damage that was caused by overheating? To not do so is foolish.

I went with a Harrison replacement, and went to four cores from the original 3. No issues at all so what ever.


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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Running warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockragtop View Post
When you say warm just how warm?
Could also be a timing issue.
If he needs a new radiator throwing band aides at it won't fix the problem either.


190- 195 running down the road, came to a light and the a block of so to the show slow 210- 215, like I said it was very peasant on Sunday , He is very stubborn crabby old dude. I had suggested he fix the rad and add a good stewart water pump and he would be good. His fan and shroud. are in good shape and seal good to the rad.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 09:27 AM
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Re: Running warm

The notion that a pusher fan blocks airflow any more than a puller fan is completely lost on me. Resistance is resistance whether it is before or after the radiator is my thinking. Could someone point me to some actual test data showing this to be the case. Thanks.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 10:01 AM
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Re: Running warm

The pusher fans block the airflow through the radiator when driving the car at speed. And yes resistance is the same but it depends are where the resistance is. On puller fans itís after the air has flowed through the radiator core

I bought a 55 Chevy A few years ago with the Merlin 509 and two pusher fans engine was running too hot I moved the fans to the back and the temp dropped over 25į a cruise

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 11:10 AM
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Re: Running warm

Be Cool all aluminum 4 core radiator and a 160 Thermo. That will fix his problem.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 12:01 PM
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Re: Running warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEN357 View Post
Be Cool all aluminum 4 core radiator and a 160 Thermo. That will fix his problem.
160į thermostat will not make the car run cooler Becool radiators are a good choice along with lots of others for less money
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 02:31 PM
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Re: Running warm

In theory from what we have been told, the key to the issue is the 25% loss in radiator flow due to crud and corrosion.

Cranky or not restoring 100% flow is the only solution.

If he doesn't understand it, have him run around the block at his top sprint speed with 25% of his nose and mouth taped shut. That should about do it.


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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 06:54 PM
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Re: Running warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
The pusher fans block the airflow through the radiator when driving the car at speed. And yes resistance is the same but it depends are where the resistance is. On puller fans itís after the air has flowed through the radiator core

I bought a 55 Chevy A few years ago with the Merlin 509 and two pusher fans engine was running too hot I moved the fans to the back and the temp dropped over 25į a cruise
Resistance is resistance whether it is before or after the radiator and either one will slow airflow imho. Same as current in an electrical circuit when you add resistance. It doesnít matter where in the circuit you add the resistance, the current drop is the same.

I understand your data point but I suspect you also changed the shroud arrangement when you moved from pusher to puller which pretty much makes your results inconclusive imho.

I know this is a hotly debated point. Asking if anyone can provide real test data. Iíve googled it and couldnít find any.

Don

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 27th, 18, 06:59 PM
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Re: Running warm

I had real world results by simply moving the same fans to the rear and reversing the direction of the fans

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 04:50 AM
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Re: Running warm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
I had real world results by simply moving the same fans to the rear and reversing the direction of the fans
No shroud changes? Equal spacing between the fans and radiator in both cases?

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 07:10 AM
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Re: Running warm

I tried electric fans both ways with the same shroud and had no luck in cooling either way. so I went mechanical. end of problem
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 28th, 18, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Running warm

Thanks for all the help guys. We will see were it goes from here. Should be a good test this week end, 95 and Humid

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