Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350 - Team Camaro Tech
Heating & Cooling Heating, cooling and air conditioning

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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

I looking at upgrading the cooling system in my 1967 350.The car is a weekend cruiser but it gets pretty hot down here in Texas. I looking at the Cold Case aluminum Rad with the 2 large rows, I'm told it cool better than a 3 or 4 row. I was also going to upgrade my water pump to maybe an Edelbrock Victor Series pump. I'm trying to decide if I should go with an electric fan vs the mechanical flex fan. Does anybody have recommendation regarding the these upgrades?
Thanks for your input in advance
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 10:14 AM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

I recommend one change at a time with the radiator replacement first. Otherwise you canít gauge what is working and what is not. I see no need for an Edelbrock high volume water pump on a weekend cruiser.

Don

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 11:17 AM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

I have a '67 RS/SS 350 that I bought new. It has an Isky cam and a high rise with long tube headers and I drive it hard, but have never had a heating problem with the factory system and fan, no matter how hot the weather. If your original rad is in good shape and clean, I'd be leaving it alone. I assume you have the factory fan shroud as well?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 11:44 AM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Engine, make sure the timing curves and settings are done correctly. Ported vacuum advance and other bad considerations only help overheating and poor running.

Radiator: when done right, stock is just fine, multiple core, same.

Water pump: the impeller is the key here. Most late model pumps use an impeller that is stamped from a sheet of steel, and bent into fins, with NO backing to the fins, allowing coolant to bypass the fins, not push it through the system. The better pumps use either a cast, or special steel closed back impeller, so coolant cannot bypass the fins.

Drive pulleys: NO UNDER DRIVE PULLEYS, there is NO reason to turn a water pump slower than stock, ever.

Thermostat: Robertshaw, Mr. Gasket "Pressure Balanced" type, others do not have a barrel shaped valve in them as these do, they use a flat plate that can be forced closed at higher flow volumes. Temperatures for the thermostats, cast iron block and heads, 180 deg/F, cast iron block, aluminum heads, 192 to 195 deg/F., all aluminum block and heads, 200 deg/F.

Fan: full size ENGINE DRIVEN, not electric, with as many blades as will fit, no flex fans. The fan should sit 50/50 inside, and out of the opening in the shroud.

Fan drive: A/C fan clutch, they have a temperature adjuster on their front, to vary the fan drag to match engine temperatures. Non A/C clutches have a set drag ratio.

Radiator shroud: full size fan shroud that covers all the fin area on the radiator, even out to the end tanks, with NO fins exposed outside the shroud. Full air flow is needed for the entire fin and core row of the radiator.

Coolant: in areas with milder weather, 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and TAP WATER, hotter areas, can change the ratio to use more water, less coolant, down to 30/70 or so to match the need. Why tap water? Processed and treated waters are always mineral starved, so, they eat minerals all around them, like cast iron, aluminum, gasket materials, rubber water hoses. If you absolutely MUST use a treated water, add a sacrificial anode into the radiator and let the demineralized water eat the anode, not the rest of the system.

Of source, there will be people that will say all this is bunk, and that I don't know what I am doing, but, in the 50 years or so I have been running auto and motorcycle engines, not one of them has ever failed from doing what I just outlined above, and none of them ever overheated, even the ones I road raced. So, stupid me, this way WORKS.

You asked how to do it right, this is the way I learned to do it just that way, right.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 12:26 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill3337 View Post
I have a '67 RS/SS 350 that I bought new. It has an Isky cam and a high rise with long tube headers and I drive it hard, but have never had a heating problem with the factory system and fan, no matter how hot the weather. If your original rad is in good shape and clean, I'd be leaving it alone. I assume you have the factory fan shroud as well?
The radiator leaks...

Just how hot is hot in Victoria BC? Canít be Texas hot....

Don

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 12:44 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Not here, but we've had it in Reno and other areas at 100 degrees. The interior of BC gets over 100 in the summer too.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 01:13 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

I would get rid of the FLEX fan and go back to stock before you do anything else.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 01:56 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ray View Post
Engine, make sure the timing curves and settings are done correctly. Ported vacuum advance and other bad considerations only help overheating and poor running.

Radiator: when done right, stock is just fine, multiple core, same.

Water pump: the impeller is the key here. Most late model pumps use an impeller that is stamped from a sheet of steel, and bent into fins, with NO backing to the fins, allowing coolant to bypass the fins, not push it through the system. The better pumps use either a cast, or special steel closed back impeller, so coolant cannot bypass the fins.

Drive pulleys: NO UNDER DRIVE PULLEYS, there is NO reason to turn a water pump slower than stock, ever.

Thermostat: Robertshaw, Mr. Gasket "Pressure Balanced" type, others do not have a barrel shaped valve in them as these do, they use a flat plate that can be forced closed at higher flow volumes. Temperatures for the thermostats, cast iron block and heads, 180 deg/F, cast iron block, aluminum heads, 192 to 195 deg/F., all aluminum block and heads, 200 deg/F.

Fan: full size ENGINE DRIVEN, not electric, with as many blades as will fit, no flex fans. The fan should sit 50/50 inside, and out of the opening in the shroud.

Fan drive: A/C fan clutch, they have a temperature adjuster on their front, to vary the fan drag to match engine temperatures. Non A/C clutches have a set drag ratio.

Radiator shroud: full size fan shroud that covers all the fin area on the radiator, even out to the end tanks, with NO fins exposed outside the shroud. Full air flow is needed for the entire fin and core row of the radiator.

Coolant: in areas with milder weather, 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and TAP WATER, hotter areas, can change the ratio to use more water, less coolant, down to 30/70 or so to match the need. Why tap water? Processed and treated waters are always mineral starved, so, they eat minerals all around them, like cast iron, aluminum, gasket materials, rubber water hoses. If you absolutely MUST use a treated water, add a sacrificial anode into the radiator and let the demineralized water eat the anode, not the rest of the system.

Of source, there will be people that will say all this is bunk, and that I don't know what I am doing, but, in the 50 years or so I have been running auto and motorcycle engines, not one of them has ever failed from doing what I just outlined above, and none of them ever overheated, even the ones I road raced. So, stupid me, this way WORKS.

You asked how to do it right, this is the way I learned to do it just that way, right.
Most of this makes sense except the tap water part. Tap water chemistry is all over the place. Down here in Texas it can be alkaline and very salty. I would not want that stuff in my radiator. I use the premixed Prestone because I assume they know what water chemistry is best....

Don

1969 Camaro LSA 6L90E AME subframe and IRS
1969 Camaro vert LS3 4L65E Ridetech level 2 - sold
1959 El Camino project
1969 Mustang Sportsroof project
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 02:10 PM
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This is what I have in my Z. A 4 core copper/brass radiator from Clasic industries, a high flow thermostat , and a high flow waterpump. I also have a 7 blade clutch fan and factory fan shroud. I sat in stopped traffic, it was 100 degrees with my A/C on for 30 minuits, and the car never ran over 170-180.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Thanks to everybody for the feed back, good info from everybody. I think I'll start by bring my core leaking rad to a local rad shop and have it evaluated. I will probably go with a high flow Mr gasket thermostat and maybe a high flow water pump, my existing W/pump is working OK but probably 30 years old. I already have an after market 6 bladed fairly high pitch composite/fiberglass fan, no clutch. Should I make it a clutch fan or is the fixed mount sufficient? I was not having any cooling issues aside from the leaking rad core. I guess was over thinking the upgrade. Thanks again for the feedback
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 03:20 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Tap water works, filter it before putting it in the system. I've never had a problem with tap water, even from Texas, but have repaired so many systems that ran "special" blends of waters that didn't work, ate stuff. Of course, I am speaking of normal tap waters, not stuff from a caustic well.

Everyone, do as you please, nobody is forcing anyone to do it any different than YOU wish to do it, but, don't flame me for doing it the way I have proven to work so many times, it isn't funny.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 04:47 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Water wetter? Mr. Gasket thermostat is good, drill an 1/8 inch hole in it for purging.
Thank you, Rufus, for the info.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 05:21 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave ray View Post
Tap water works, filter it before putting it in the system. I've never had a problem with tap water, even from Texas, but have repaired so many systems that ran "special" blends of waters that didn't work, ate stuff. Of course, I am speaking of normal tap waters, not stuff from a caustic well.

Everyone, do as you please, nobody is forcing anyone to do it any different than YOU wish to do it, but, don't flame me for doing it the way I have proven to work so many times, it isn't funny.
Would never use tap water. Purified for me. The water is so hard hereyou canít even wash your car with it let alone put that crap in your radiator.

Impurities in water lower boiling point. Try this experiment. Heat distilled water in the microwave to about 230. It wonít boil or if it does very slightly. With it super hotbdrop in a few grains of sugar or salt. Stand back.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 7th, 18, 05:49 PM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Radiator cores consists of rows. No such thing as a 2, 3 or 4 core radiator. This misinformation is constantly posted on sites.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old Oct 8th, 18, 03:15 AM
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Re: Cooling system upgrade, 67, 350

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett#2390 View Post
Water wetter? Mr. Gasket thermostat is good, drill an 1/8 inch hole in it for purging.
Thank you, Rufus, for the info.
Everett, I will do the 1/8 drilled hole in my 396 when I put it back together if you recommend. Sounds logical....


Kiowa,
I have a 2-row and a stock pump and clutch fan on my 396 and I have no overheating even when running Vintage Air here in the Austin area. I agree with the logic that a two-row actually has more surface area than a 3, or 4-Row. The set up works great!

Brett......

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