Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 14, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

Hey fellow New Englanders, it's time to dust off the Camaro and log some miles...

I'm posting this so Tom (Melrose RS) doesn't have to. See, whenever he posts info on a cruise/show/get together it always rains, and we're trying to prevent that...

A bunch of us have made this show in the past. Kingpins puts on a great event, and there's always a great turnout. It's held at the Knights of Columbus in Methuen, MA. There is no admission fee, it starts at 10am, they have bands throughout the day, and a nice variety of PRE-1974 cars from every genre. If you're free that Sunday, we'd love to see you there, or better yet, meet up with us along the way and cruise in together.

Here's the flyer, who's free that weekend?



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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 14, 12:25 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

Thanks for posting this, Brent!
I'll be making progress this week to get my transmission back into the Camaro and have every intention of being there on the 4th.

I am already signed up for the "cheating encouraged" pinewood derby.

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 14, 04:23 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

working hard (well not to hard) to get the 69 together enough to get it there. i do know if i do get it together enough it will have no interior.

69 X-44 Camaro, slowly upgrading to my liking...Hmmm, i guess i'll never be done
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 14, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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working hard (well not to hard) to get the 69 together enough to get it there. i do know if i do get it together enough it will have no interior.
You only need 1 seat (or a milk crate)!

Can't bring the '02 to this one...get to work!!!


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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 15th, 14, 06:35 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

I'm working as best I can to get mine back together as well. If I do get it back together and there are no issues preventing me from driving it I'll be there as well. If I don't, I'll scoot down on a two wheeler to say hello and checkout all the cool rides.

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 06:41 AM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

Hoping to get mine back together this weekend and then will try to leave it alone until the show.

Kevin

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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 08:26 AM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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Originally Posted by sleepsinshed View Post
Hoping to get mine back together this weekend and then will try to leave it alone until the show.
Got my oil pump, oil pan and starter back in last night and tonight will be flywheel, clutch/pplate and bellhousing. I am targeting this Friday for completion and moving under its own power again.

What were you working on, Kevin?

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 09:13 AM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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What were you working on, Kevin?
Minor stuff; getting the gauges wired up, putting a Pertronix Ignitor in the dizzy, and trying to re-route the speedo cable so it works with the Muncie.

Kevin

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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 10:47 AM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

Tom, I can't remember what you were working on, replacing the rear main seal by chance?

Kevin, which Pertronix Ignitor did you go with, the I, II or III ?

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 11:35 AM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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Tom, I can't remember what you were working on, replacing the rear main seal by chance?

Kevin, which Pertronix Ignitor did you go with, the I, II or III ?
Thanks for reminding me- I did change the rear main seal also. But the root of the problem was that one day the clutch failed to disengage. Good that it was in the garage and I didn't get stranded anywhere. I've always felt the TO bearing was incorrect for the application so I couldn't get enough adjustment. This should all be remedied with the new setup.

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #11 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 12:44 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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Thanks for reminding me- I did change the rear main seal also. But the root of the problem was that one day the clutch failed to disengage. Good that it was in the garage and I didn't get stranded anywhere. I've always felt the TO bearing was incorrect for the application so I couldn't get enough adjustment. This should all be remedied with the new setup.
That's right, I do remember you mentioning earlier in the winter season that you had to pull the transmission and do the clutch. Convenient that it let you know what it needed while it was on home turf. So did it end up being just the clutch disc or was the pressure plate bad or were both pretty much at the end of their service life?

Did you do something different for the TO bearing and the clutch/pressure plate?

When I read you put your oil pump and pan back on I figured you must have done the rear main seal (I just did mine as well). Did you go with a single lip or double lip seal and did you clock the seal or install it flush to the block/cap (just curious)?

My buddy Steve with the red 68 just replaced his M20 with an M21 over the winter and found out while driving to my house this past Sunday that it has the same problem he had with his M20 (which was rebuilt twice and still had issues). He and I looked at it Sunday and found his clutch fork was running into the firewall/floor area and someone before he purchased the car "modified" the area to provide some additional clearance but it just wasn't/isn't enough.

After doing some further research, it appears it has the heavy duty clutch fork which is not only to thick, but the throw ratio changes as the distance between the pivot ball and the clutch rod is longer causing the TO bearing travel distance to be less. Add to that the clearance issue with the firewall/floor and you have a situation that the clutch works just okay when cold but as soon as it heats up, will not fully disengage. At least his brother has a lift he can use and he's removed and reinstalled the transmission in that car three times in the last two years so he can almost do it with his eyes closed I think. And no rusted or frozen fasteners to deal with as they've been exercised so much in the last two years!

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #12 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 01:40 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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Originally Posted by NH69Z28RS View Post
That's right, I do remember you mentioning earlier in the winter season that you had to pull the transmission and do the clutch. Convenient that it let you know what it needed while it was on home turf. So did it end up being just the clutch disc or was the pressure plate bad or were both pretty much at the end of their service life?

Did you do something different for the TO bearing and the clutch/pressure plate?

When I read you put your oil pump and pan back on I figured you must have done the rear main seal (I just did mine as well). Did you go with a single lip or double lip seal and did you clock the seal or install it flush to the block/cap (just curious)?

My buddy Steve with the red 68 just replaced his M20 with an M21 over the winter and found out while driving to my house this past Sunday that it has the same problem he had with his M20 (which was rebuilt twice and still had issues). He and I looked at it Sunday and found his clutch fork was running into the firewall/floor area and someone before he purchased the car "modified" the area to provide some additional clearance but it just wasn't/isn't enough.

After doing some further research, it appears it has the heavy duty clutch fork which is not only to thick, but the throw ratio changes as the distance between the pivot ball and the clutch rod is longer causing the TO bearing travel distance to be less. Add to that the clearance issue with the firewall/floor and you have a situation that the clutch works just okay when cold but as soon as it heats up, will not fully disengage. At least his brother has a lift he can use and he's removed and reinstalled the transmission in that car three times in the last two years so he can almost do it with his eyes closed I think. And no rusted or frozen fasteners to deal with as they've been exercised so much in the last two years!
Yeah it just failed to disengage one day. I don't see anything broken and they don't have more than 10k miles, but the bearing has been riding the clutch and I guess it cooked. It's kind of a long story on the clutch/pressure plate. When I did the swap over I used this "new" Hays clutch and plate that I bought about 20 years ago on another project. (I had lost the TO bearing from the kit over the years). So I installed it, but I think the TO bearing was too short so I never got adjusted to my satisfaction. So I just decided to eliminate all the unknowns and purchase a new kit which tuns out to have a considerably longer TO bearing. I'll use the same BH and fork and stud as they are all GM parts.

On the rear main seal, I got the Felpro double lip one and the instructions recommend clocking it 3/8" so that is what I did. I had to go to three stores before I found one for a small journal 327! With the trans out, I figured this was the time to do it but I had no way to raise the engine so in order to take the pan fully out(to pound out a big dent I had made in the sump!) I had to lower the oil pump because the pickup wouldn't clear the baffle in the pan. It all worked out but it is a tough job to get the oilpan out with these low 327 frame stands and I couldn't have done it in the car without having the BH and flywheel off.

The heavy duty (second gen)fork is longer from the pivot point so yes, would reduce throwout bearing excursion by some degree for the same amount of input. Old posts here from FARMBOY show how to mod this fork and use it with success and a lighter feel. I was thinking about trying it on mine but at this point, probably not.

Hope Steve can get his sorted by May 4th!

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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post #13 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

This weekend I'm hoping to replace the almost new McLeod hydraulic clutch MC that I installed last year. It puked all over my driveway on Monday. Better there than an hour or so from home.


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post #14 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 02:55 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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This weekend I'm hoping to replace the almost new McLeod hydraulic clutch MC that I installed last year. It puked all over my driveway on Monday. Better there than an hour or so from home.
Brent, that bites and it seems way too soon for a part that new to fail
Did you check with McLeod to see if they will do anything for you about it?

How do both you and Tom get your cars to expose their problems on their home territory?

69 Camaro Z/28 RS, original Azure Turquoise, M21 & 3.73 12-bolt posi. NOM 406ci, AFR 210 heads, Straub hyd. roller cam & Dynatech 1-3/4" > 1-7/8" headers, QuickFuel 750 Annular. Photos at:
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post #15 of 73 (permalink) Old Apr 16th, 14, 03:02 PM
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Re: Kingpins Season Opener May 4, 2014 - Methuen, MA

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How do both you and Tom get your cars to expose their problems on their home territory?
Burnouts in our own driveways.

'67 rs - ordered new by my Grandfather
327 L30, K-K, Deluxe int, tach & gauges, 12 bolt posi, 4 speed.

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