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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 19, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Newbie has several questions

Hi,


Im Daniel from Germany, 38 years old and currently thinking to sell my 65 Mustang Fastback (which I restored over the last 5 years) and to buy a Camaro of the first generation.



In Germany we have big Mustang forum but I was suprised that i couldnt find a Camaro forum so I hope you can help me as well (or even better ). And I hope Im using the right section of the forum because I didnt find a section like "general topics".


Here are my questions:


1. I`m prefering the 4-speed manual transmisson because in my Mustang I have 3-speed automatic (Ford C4) and my feeling is that this automatic eats a lot of power and even if I have a long rear axis the third gear is much to short for my taste (e.g. on the Autobahn). Any comments from your side regarding my prefered gearbox?


2. In terms of reliabilty, power delivery, value development: which motor would you prefer? 302 (Z/28) or 350?


3. How is the situation regarding spare parts? For my mustang it is pretty is to get spare parts, no matter if I look for them in Germany or the US.


4. How does the value development look like? Is it currently at a peak and actually not the best time to buy a Camaro or can I expect that the value increases?


5. In my Mustang it was a huge improvement to dam to inner side of the floor panels. Especially in terms of heat reduction. How is the situation with the Camaro? Is it also necessary?


6. What else are the must-do's every Camaro owner should do?


7. I found here in the forum the short buyers guide 8 minutes video but maybe you know another more detailed guide for camaro newbies? If not: what are the typical issues of a Camaro?


8. I think I prefer the 69 but are there besides the look any other arguments why I should buy a specific year?



Ok, thats it for the first step


Hope to hear from you and thanks in advance!

Daniel
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 10th, 19, 10:38 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Just like 1st generation Mustangs, 1st gen Camaro parts are widely available from several reproduction distributors in the US

the 302 motor was specific to Z28 67-69 then 350 in the gen 2 Camaro. A real Z28 will typically be higher $ than a non Z28 in = condition

power loss between automatic & manual transmissions is not much difference, maybe 5% at most more with automatics

$ value....well depends on how well you buy the car so how much it will increase depends on what you pay for it originally. Resale value fluctuates but long term these cars have increased in value

Some prefer complete "original" aka "correct" Camaros while most just want them to look good and drive well so they make modifications be it paint color & interior or performance modifications (engine, overdrive transmissions in automatic or manual, suspension, wheels, exhaust, etc). Basically make the car what you want it to be IMHO.

I suspect a Camaro will cost more in Germany vs here in the but the selection would be considerably more here in US. Cars can be shipped.
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 12:43 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Hi Daniel and welcome to this forum,

Im glad youre lookin into stepping up in your classic American hobby cause a Camaro is always cooler them a Mustang!....especially a Hugger orange 69 Camaro!

I live in Sweden and we can get parts over day locally from a lot of speed shops in Sweden but if you have to take it from us, within a week! I personally prefer to buy good stuff as cheap as possible through eBay and then take the parts by boat to Sweden. It takes longer time but is much more affordable.

Regarding engines you dont mention the alternative I prefer, the 427 or 396!
The big block really makes your Camaro pop out as a real muscle car!

The coolest way is to go with the stick shift but I prefer the automatic cause it much easier to race and smother and easier to cruise in the town with, but its totally up to you...the loss of power is nothing you will notice, I promise!....especially with a 427 ZL-1 engine as I have!

The value is always better with a matching number high end and original car as a SS/RS 396, Z/28, COPO but the rest is up to what the market and you prefer. The matching number cars in Sweden for example is more for the museums and car collectors...for the ordinary car enthusiast the looks and total appearance are more appreciated and will be paid for!

Good luck in your hunt and keep the questions coming, no question are dumb and there are a huge amount of knowledge here in the forums to help you!

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1969 Camaro X44, hugger orange, 427 ZL-1, TH350, 4:10 12 bolt Posi, RPO Z87, black/white houndstooth, 14" steel wheels & dog dish, 02D built

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 06:07 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Having owned a 69 Mustang and having to deal with the many odd design and engineering aspects of the car while working on it I can tell you that making the switch to a first gen Camaro will be a good choice.

The biggest thing to look at on a Camaro is rust in the trunk, rear wheel wells, rocker panels and floor boards. Anything else mechanically is pretty straight forward so if it runs & drives you are doing well. Rebuilding and upgrading functional systems that are road worthy is no big deal compared to completing an unfinished project car with systems that may not have worked in decades. You may spend much more on a running car with a good body but the up front cost is a huge savings in time and money down the road on fixing rust and making the car run & drive.

If you are not concerned about keeping an original engine or transmission in the car then maybe a modern drivetrain swap is in order or even just the transmission. The LS engine swap is a very popular thing to do and can be done easily with many different donors for the drivetrain. Everything from an iron block 5.3L engine and the 4L60E overdrive automatic that came behind it from a truck, Suburban, Tahoe or van that can be had for next to nothing all the way up to a brand new turn key E-Rod engine package from Chevrolet with one of the current production ZL1 Camaro LSA supercharged 6.2L all aluminum engines, a stand alone engine harness and computer and the overdrive transmission of your choice with the control module and harness to operate it all designed for a swap into a non-computer controlled vehicle.

If you want to keep the look of the original small block then a 350 is a great engine and there are literally millions of them out there to choose from. Without overdrive you are limited to a pretty tall rear gear that makes an original automatic transmission no fun to drive around town if you want to cruise at high speeds for any sustained period of time with the car. Building one of the more common 700R4 / 4L60 transmissions to take even a mildly built 350 will be fairly expensive. They were not designed to take even 350 hp and have several internal hard parts that will physically fail at or below that power level. I broke too many of them with my 4th gen Firebird LT1 that had just the typical bolt-on upgrades to the engine over stock to ever put one into a vehicle where I had another choice. A 4L80E transmission is the overdrive version of the T-400 and can take quite a bit of power in stock form. With a basic rebuild and key upgrade parts it will take 800-hp all day long. It's heavier and robs a little power compared to the 4L60 but the durability is well worth it.

If you want a manual transmission then there are many options. A swap that the 3rd-gen Camaro/Firebird guys like to do is install the 4th-gen Camaro/Firebird 6-speed manual transmission in place of their 4-speed and 5-speed manual transmissions. With its 25% OD 5th gear and 50% OD 6th gear it is fantastic for high speed cruising. My 95 Z28 was only at 1700 rpm at 70 mph in 6th. It would be a great transmission for your car where you have access to the Autobahn and can let the car really fly. Speaking of flying, make sure you get a car with both the front and rear spoilers as they need to be installed as a set. Having just the rear one will cause the nose to lift more at high speeds than if the car did not have the rear spoiler. I have seen far too many cars out there with just the rear spoiler on them not to warn you about this since you can legally drive the car at extremely high speeds. The Z/28 design team did substantial wind tunnel and aerodynamic load testing on the car to design the spoilers for the Camaro to use in the Trans Am racing series so they are designed for high speed functionality not just for looks. They will be a safety benefit to you at high speeds and allow you to go faster with more control so if the car you get doesn't have them then I would suggest installing them.

There aren't any real reasons to pick one year over another other than looks so it just comes down to what you like the best. They all have slight emblem, trim and upholstery changes along with some major styling changes but mechanically they are very similar. Just minor updates for the most part as they continued to refine the car over the production years.

Good luck with your search. I know you won't be disappointed in making the switch from the dark side.
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1968 Camaro SS-RS 427 bbc 4L80E 4.11 posi 12-bolt C6 front / LS1 rear disc
1968 C10 stepside 400 sbc T-400 3.73 posi 12-bolt front disc factory A/C front & rear sway bars - built like what a Super Sport truck could have been
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 11th, 19, 06:38 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

The 1st question and your 1st priority is how are you going to use the Camaro?

Weekend cruiser? Track? Freeway or autobahn? A lot of stop and go traffic?

If fuel prices are a concern stay away from BBC. 350s are nice 383 stroker better an relatively inexpensive to build.

LS Swaps imho are the absolute best way to go with overdrive transmission.

But again it all comes back to how you intend to use the car.

I always say. Unless you do body and paint work yourself Buy the car with body and paint you can afford. Mechanics are easy to do and estimate costs. Body and paint can evolve into a long term money pit.

66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 05:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Hi all,


thanks a lot for your answers and the warm welcome!



Im not planning to make a LS swap or something similar. I prefer to get the H (historic) license plate here in Germany and therefore the car should be as original as possible.



Regarding the usage: Mostly weekend and country road, no track, sometimes Autobahn and stop&go.



A big block would be very interesting of course but the initial investment is higher and also the maintenance so a "small" (which sounds very funny for Germans ) block is good for me.


Due to the amount of work I had with my Mustang I would now prefer to get a Camaro where I only have minor todos, for example this one here (if it is as described):
https : // www . pttmgarage . com/cars/7150/Chevrolet/Camaro_SS_4-speed
What do you think about this car? The last 5 pictures are from another car I think


And maybe someone has answers to my questions 5 and 6 ?
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 05:43 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Good luck! How about posting some pics of the Mustang so we can see what you have to sell for your Camaro?
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 05:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEN357 View Post
Good luck! How about posting some pics of the Mustang so we can see what you have to sell for your Camaro?
Is the "good luck" ironic?

I would love to post some pictures but your forum tells me that my post count is too low.
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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 05:52 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Link

https://www.pttmgarage.com/cars/7150...aro_SS_4-speed
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 05:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vega$69 View Post
Thanks 😉

And I see that they updated their pictures so the last ones are now from the right car.
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 06:04 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

5) Yes, same situation as the mustang here. Definitely worth the money to put a good sound deadener down before jute and carpeting. That will help with heat also if something like B-quiet type material is used.

6) Good once over is a must when buying a car. Change all fluids. Next address brakes and suspension. Great upgrades are disc brake conversion and suspension mods from mild to wild.

And welcome to Team Camaro!

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Moser 9" with 4:11
Martz Chassis 4-link and Front Sub-frame
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 06:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Thanks a lot for your answers!

As an example I optimized the following things in my mustang (not to get primarily more power but just a better car):
- relais circuit for the head lights to save the light switch
- electrical charge controller instead of the mechanical one
- shelby drop (to get the front a bit lower but also to improve handling due to an optimized suspension geometry)
- pertronix ignition
- visco fan instead of the fixed mounted fan
- montecarlo bar

And here is a link to my Mustang: https : // suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=282544943&lang=de&utm_source=Direc tMail&utm_medium=textlink&utm_campaign=Recommend_D ES
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 09:01 AM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Link to Stang

Nice car

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/d...y=KW&scopeId=C

66 Chevelle Protour LS3/525(SOLD AT Mecum 2018)
69 SS396 Cortez Silver(SOLD)
69 Z28(Sold)
69 Pro Tour - LS3/T56
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 12:28 PM
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Re: Newbie has several questions

Very nice Camaro. I'd want the Camaro with the stick over the Stang with the auto as well!!!
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old Aug 12th, 19, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me why some air cleaner are connected/sealed to the hood, others just have an open air cleaner and others (like the Camaro I'm interested in) have something like a snorkel.
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