ahhh the discussion over gloss goes on and on. Most restored cars I see have a semi gloss finish. The orig cars I have seen are gloss or almost gloss...90% gloss ?
I think the reason why it's so debatable, pertaining to original cars is, gloss levels in satin or semi-gloss can easily be altered just from waxing/ polishing. Or on the other side of the spectrum, may appear almost flat if left untouched out in the weather....
...and I'm not sure the photo in the advertisement above is an accurate representation, either.
Look at the black area around the key hole... It's well known that the black goes up into the trunk lip! It's also well known that advertising photos are not always accurate.
Full gloss only pertains to urethane or enamel with hardener. Gloss as it pertains to lacquer is different. Lacquer does not achieve full gloss until it is cut and buffed. Out of the gun it is at a level higher than semi-gloss, and that depends upon reduction and conditions. Heater box covers are full gloss as it pertains to lacquer for instance.
I used to build custom furniture. A customer did not like the satin, catalyzed lacquer initially chosen for a tabletop and wanted it more glossy. I ran a buffer over it quickly and bingo, about 85-90% gloss. I did the same with a heater box cover that I added too much flattening agent. Buffed it out by hand to achieve the gloss it is supposed to be.
I hate relying on screen photos for accuracy, but unless someone polished the tailpanel adjacent to the trunk weatherstrip in Charlie's photo, I'd say that area was accurate for that particular car. That is not gloss but at the high end of semi-gloss.
Any flattened paint after decades of maintenance is anyone's guess.
Show me an untouched piece, unaffected by maintenance or UV rays and that is where the facts lie. But only for that particular car, not for every other one
manufactured.
Grab some black lacquer, throw it in your gun and shoot some test panels; then a better evaluation can be made.
I can imagine some variation from car to car, but not by much. I don't think the factory had much more than 2 or 3 shades of black. The reduction and application conditions should've been consistent.
And BTW Scott, years ago when installed the heater box, I didn't realize it was full gloss as compared to the firewall (from the factory). So I did the same as you in buffing it out by hand. It don't take much elbow grease to raise the gloss level on "satin" or "semi-gloss" finishes.
So Charley, was thinking you probably don't like the idea of removing the emblem on THAT car, which I don't blame you. What about that red 68 Yenko (Simon's old car) ?? IIRC, it still had the emblem. It wasn't a repaint was it ? Or maybe you don't even have the car anymore...
I can imagine some variation from car to car, but not by much. I don't think the factory had much more than 2 or 3 shades of black. The reduction and application conditions should've been consistent.
Good points Gary but one has to wonder why the debate wages on between the amount of shine. We are talking about cars over a couple year period and believe William in the past mentioned something like 30,000 cars. I can see the debate due to those figures and how batches of paint and application can vary in results.
:beers:
the 68 big block car I had for a while back in 75 was more gloss than non original paint car
it was also maroon and I have read a lot of peoples responses saying that didn't happen either. I knew this car from new ,just an old used car when I got it as a roller , but I do know it had never been repainted at that time
IIRC, JohnZ stated that there were only 2 blacks on tap in the paint room. Gloss black and semi-gloss.
The rest of the CRG statement is:
But it should be noted that a few original paint black SS-396's have been observed with blacked-out tailpanels - the paint difference is only visible at the paint tape line.
Those black BB cars actually help clear up the issue.
The blacks are different, but they are close. I've seen several original paint BB tailpanels, esp behind the taillights. All were not full gloss. Clearly different than the full gloss of the exterior color. But also reflective enough to not be flat.
Because of the age of these cars, this one will not likely ever be settled.
Personally, from the few I looked at, I would say the tail panel is not full gloss.
I also do not believe the heater box is full gloss. I know for certain, the first one I disassembled (in the summer of 71) was not nearly as glossy as the black stripes on the hood. I understand that lacquer is not full on glossy before buffing, but the heater boxes I have looked at were not as glossy as the car I painted black lacquer three years ago even before buffing. No question the heater box is more glossy than the fire wall. Just don't believe it is full gloss.
Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
Because of the age of these cars, this one will not likely ever be settled.
Personally, from the few I looked at, I would say the tail panel is not full gloss.
I also do not believe the heater box is full gloss. I know for certain, the first one I disassembled (in the summer of 71) was not nearly as glossy as the black stripes on the hood. I understand that lacquer is not full on glossy before buffing, but the heater boxes I have looked at were not as glossy as the car I painted black lacquer three years ago even before buffing. No question the heater box is more glossy than the fire wall. Just don't believe it is full gloss.
Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree.
Full gloss as it pertains to lacquer is not like full gloss urethane. I shoot urethane almost daily, as well as numerous other paint types. There is also a difference in blowing on a quick lacquer coat for a heater cover and numerous lacquer coats on a body. The problem with people saying gloss for the cover is they never state it should be approximately 80% gloss, and not a low enough percentage to be semi-gloss in its low to mid range. Gloss levels fall into ranges.
A friend with a restoration shop has a client that just bought a couple cars and one is a Butternut 68 SS 396 with 3K orig miles. He says the tailpanel is shiny. He is the shop that is restoring the red RS Yenko and will do the tail panel the same. I'm trying to get him to get me pics.
"However, I did read somewhere the Back Tail Panel was Black Lacquer, Not Buffed out."
These Cars were Painted with Lacquer. Not Sure if Enamel was being used then, I'm Not a paint Expert !
I also did my Restoration using RustOleum Professional Semi Gloss Black, For $ 7.00 a Can, Here is a Pic of my Frame Months after I painted it, The Gloss is Pretty "Shiny", It Dies down after a few Months as it's Drying out.
And Very Durable.
I ordered My 69 SS396 convertible new from a local dealer.
Hugger Orange with white stripes, top and interior.
The tail panel was flat black from the factory.
Randy
I bought my '67 RS/SS 350 new in '67 and it didn't have the rear panel blacked out, but my friend bought a white RS/SS 396 and his did have the blacked out panel. The black was not gloss, but not sure if it was semi-gloss or satin, but definitely not gloss. There were a few around that year and I don't remember any being gloss. I still have my '67 and am planning a refresher this winter.
This is what was under my trunk seal and is what I believe to be the correct blackout gloss percentage. Definitely not "full gloss" and definitely not flat. I always appreciate the survivor pics that get posted, but I think the waxing over the last 50 years has caused them to look a lot more glossy than what they were originally.
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