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Old Jul 24th, 12, 12:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

Does'nt run as good I think it should. Found out last nite the previous dumass owner has been running 87 octane for over 8000 miles. I know it should be running 91-93. If I take out the 87 & replace with 93 will the computer automatically readjust itself to the higher octane mode for better performance. I just spoke with a Chevy service mgr in South Bend, IN and he seems to duh think so. That is, after you have run about 8 gals of the new fuel and put a few miles on. Just doesn't sound right to me. Anyone got any other suggestions. I love this car but I think my 69 427/425 has as big as balls as this 2010. Thanx ahead of time. Mike
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 01:14 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

You're stuck now, you have to keep running low octain and will be seeing mustang tail lights from now on!! LOL read on...

Look in your owners manual, it says if you get stuck and have to use low octain the computer will adjust for it with less timing resulting in lower performance. Kinda makes sense that if you return to high octain the computer will again adjust for it.
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 01:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wink Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

I would just add 91+ with each fill-up from now on - the mixing of the two can actually have a positive effect on the ROM Octane level

The ECM will react to the increased Octane level - if - it was effecting engine operation.
By that I mean that if the system was detecting 'ping', combustion temp variation, A/F issues or other negative effects to engine performance it will 'learn' to ramp the advance and mixture/injection dwell for the increased octane now available, up to factory pre-set limits - but it can take a little time for it to accomplish this, it will not be instant or overnight in most cases ...
The ECM will eventually map the fuel and advance to take advantage of better fuel, but you may not notice a difference via your 'seat-of-the-pants' dyno
It's not a 'One Tank' fix

If your serious about getting the most performance out of it, I would recommend finding a local shop that specializes in that sort of work and consult with them about a performance 'tune' of the stock system.
It will be money well spent to optimize the stock system, if that's what you want - Any mods beyond that are up to you ...

( I gotta learn to type faster )
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 01:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

You can pull the fuse or disconnect the bat to reset the octane map.

Of course it will also relearn over time I believe - most folks round here just wipe the map and start over.

Not sure if the old 50 mile rule still applies (Chevy's used to stay in learn mode for first 50 miles or so after reset).
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 02:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Wink Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

It is my understanding of the newer GM ECM/TCM system that disconnecting the bat does not 're-set'/relearn the system due to increased capacitance in the system ...

The problem with using 'bad' fuel is that it puts the ECM into the lower fuel quality map operational cycles vs. the high fuel quality map cycles you'll get the best performance from.
The system will eventually 'relearn' to use the better fuel - but it takes time.

I've read all through the GM Procedure (follows) and heard of one technique that will also work.
I've had some success with both - but it depends on year and issue ...

Short technique:

This procedure resets ECM back to it's default fuel trim and timing settings, and sets WOT enrichment back to the high octane table if your car has dropped into the low octane table;

1) Turn key on (leave engine off)
2) Pull fuses #5 and #20 (ECM/TCM) from the fuse box for engine
3) Turn key off
4) Wait overnight or at least several hours ...
5) Put fuses back
6) Start and test drive - but try to avoid WOT for first couple drives

The car will be defaulted back to it's initial startup, idle, part throttle cruise, and WOT fuel and timing settings.

Or ...


General Motors Driving Cycle

A complete driving cycle should perform diagnostics on all systems. A complete driving cycle can be done in under fifteen minutes.

To perform an OBDII Driving cycle do the following:

1. Cold Start. In order to be classified as a cold start the engine coolant temperature must be below 50C (122F) and within 6C (11F) of the ambient air temperature at startup.
Do not leave the key on prior to the cold start or the heated oxygen sensor diagnostic may not run.

2. Idle. The engine must be run for two and a half minutes with the air conditioner on and rear defroster on. The more electrical load you can apply the better. This will test the O2 heater, Passive Air, Purge "No Flow", Misfire and if closed loop is achieved, Fuel Trim.

3. Accelerate. Turn off the air conditioner and all the other loads and apply half throttle until 88km/hr (55mph) is reached. During this time the Misfire, Fuel Trim, and Purge Flow diagnostics will be performed.

4. Hold Steady Speed. Hold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for 3 minutes. During this time the O2 response, air Intrusive, EGR, Purge, Misfire, and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.

5. Decelerate. Let off the accelerator pedal. Do not shift, touch the brake or clutch. It is important to let the vehicle coast along gradually slowing down to 32km/hr (20 mph). During this time the EGR, Purge and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.

6. Accelerate. Accelerate at 3/4 throttle until 88-96 km/hr (55-60mph). This will perform the same diagnostics as in step 3.

7. Hold Steady Speed. Hold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for five minutes. During this time, in addition to the diagnostics performed in step 4, the catalyst monitor diagnostics will be performed. If the catalyst is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.

8. Decelerate. This will perform the same diagnostics as in step 5. Again, don't press the clutch or brakes or shift gears.

Even the A6 has GM relearn process

Service Fast Learn Adapts is a procedure for 6 speed automatic transmissions in which a series of tests are run to allow the transmission control module (TCM) to learn individual clutch characteristics. Once the clutch data is learned, Service Fast Learn Adapts translates it into the adaptive data cells, which the TCM uses for clutch control during shifts. The scan tool provides initiation of the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure. This procedure is to be used following transmission repair.

The Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure must be performed when one of the following repairs have been made to the vehicle. Failure to perform the procedure after one of the following repairs may result in poor transmission performance, as well as transmission DTCs being set:

• Transmission internal service/overhaul

• Valve body repair or replacement

• Control solenoid (w/body and TCM) valve assembly replacement

• TCM software/calibration update

• Any service in response to a shift quality concern

Important: Ensure the following conditions are met before performing the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure:


• Drive wheels are blocked

• Parking brake is applied

• Service brake is applied

• Zero percent throttle and no external engine RPM control

• Transmission fluid temperature (TFT) is between 70-100C (158-212F)

• Transmission gear selector has been cycled from Park to Reverse 3 times in order to purge air from the reverse clutches.


Use the scan tool to navigate to Service Fast Learn Adapts by selecting the following commands:
F3: Special Function
F1: Transmission Output Controls
Service Fast Learn Adapts
Important: If at any time during the procedure, required conditions are not met, Service Fast Learn Adapts may abort and the process may need to be started again from the beginning.


Use the scan tool to perform the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure.
Important: There are 3 stages required to successfully complete the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure:


PARK test setup
DRIVE mode
REVERSE mode
These stages are automatically initiated and controlled by the scan tool. As the procedure is being performed, the scan tool data display will provide operator instructions. Follow the scan tool instructions as required. The following are brief descriptions of each of the 3 different stages.


PARK Test Setup
While the transmission is in PARK, Service Fast Learn Adapts will prepare for test cycles. The test preparation will include the diagnostic criteria checks, safety checks, vehicle status checks, and then will perform internal transmission test preparation functions such as clutch air purging. The scan tool will instruct the operator to select park and apply the brake only.

DRIVE Mode
Caution: Block the wheels before selecting DRIVE. While in DRIVE, if the Scan Tool loses communication or becomes disconnected, the vehicle could move forward. Failure to block the wheels could result in personal injury or property damage.

Once the PARK setup has completed, the scan tool instructs the driver to select DRIVE. Once DRIVE is selected, the TCM engages the individual clutches to learn the clutch volume, full feed fill thresholds, and pressure offsets. The TCM will only cycle through this test once. Running the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure multiple times will give the same results and is not necessary.

REVERSE Mode
Caution: Block the wheels before selecting REVERSE. While in REVERSE, if the Scan Tool loses communication or becomes disconnected, the vehicle could move backward. Failure to block the wheels could result in personal injury or property damage.

Next, the scan tool instructs the driver to select REVERSE. The TCM engages the individual clutches to learn the clutch volume, full feed fill thresholds, and pressure offsets. The TCM will only cycle through this test one time. Running the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure multiple times will give the same results.

Important: When the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure is completed, the transmission will remain in a neutral state.


3. Once the procedure is complete, shut OFF the engine and power down the TCM. You will lose communication to the scan tool.

4. Restart the engine. This will complete the Service Fast Learn Adapts procedure.

Troubleshooting
If the Service Fast Learn Adapts will not run and the above stated conditions have been met, ensure the following:

• TFT is between 70-100C (158-212F).

• Brakes and brake switch are functioning properly.

• No active DTCs.

• Closed throttle and engine RPM increases above 1500 RPM while in Park Test Setup or at entrance of the test modes.

• Park/Neutral position switch is properly adjusted and functioning.

• Line pressure control is able to provide 1000 kPa and is within specifications.

• Vehicle is not moving, or vibrating excessively.

• Clutches are properly assembled.

C5 PCM relearn process

The main intention of the GM OBD-II cycle is to run the OBD-II Main Monitors in order to determine the status of the I/M readiness tests and to have the PCM relearn after a low of power or Keep Alive Memory and errors lost.
The drive cycle can also be used to assist in identifiying any OBD-II concerns that exist by running all of the monitors.

A cold start is a necessary step in preparation to run a complete OBD-II compliant drive cycle.

If a car is driven under the correct conditions, all of the OBD-II monitors will run their various tests, and if a test fails, set a "pending" or hardcode (MIL is llluminated).
Differences in how each monitor runs a test define the type of TRIP needed to run that monitor.
Some monitors are run only on cold engine startup, some only on a highway cruise speed with the TCC off and others at idle speed with A/C off.
Some tests will not run until a car is driven in a drive pattern that meets all of its enable criteria.

Valid Drive cycle table Requirements( total time - 12 minutes)

* Cold startup ( coolant temperature less then 122 degrees)
* Idle 2.5 minutes in "D" or "N". A/C & defogger "off"
* A/C "off", accelerate to 55 MPH at 1/2 throttle
* Steady state Cruise at 55 MPH for 3 minutes
* M/T clutch engaged, no braking, Decel to 20 MPH
* Accelerate to 55-60 MPH at 3/4 throttle
* Steady state Cruise at 55-60 MPH for 5 minutes
* Decelerate without braking




Detail :

A complete driving cycle should perform diagnostics on all systems. A complete driving cycle can be done in under fifteen minutes.

To perform an OBDII Driving cycle do the following:

Cold Start. In order to be classified as a cold start the engine coolant temperature must be below 50C (122F) and within 6C (11F) of the ambient air temperature at startup. Do not leave the key on prior to the cold start or the heated oxygen sensor diagnostic may not run.

Idle. The engine must be run for two and a half minutes with the air conditioner on and rear defroster on. The more electrical load you can apply the better. This will test the O2 heater, Passive Air, Purge "No Flow", Misfire and if closed loop is achieved, Fuel Trim.

Accelerate. Turn off the air conditioner and all the other loads and apply half throttle until 88km/hr (55mph) is reached. During this time the Misfire, Fuel Trim, and Purge Flow diagnostics will be performed.

Hold Steady Speed. Hold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for 3 minutes. During this time the O2 response, air Intrusive, EGR, Purge, Misfire, and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.

Decelerate. Let off the accelerator pedal. Do not shift, touch the brake or clutch. It is important to let the vehicle coast along gradually slowing down to 32km/hr (20 mph). During this time the EGR, Purge and Fuel Trim diagnostics will be performed.

Accelerate. Accelerate at 3/4 throttle until 88-96 km/hr (55-60mph). This will perform the same diagnostics as in step 3.

Hold Steady Speed. Hold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for five minutes. During this time, in addition to the diagnostics performed in step 4, the catalyst monitor diagnostics will be performed. If the catalyst is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.

Decelerate. This will perform the same diagnostics as in step 5. Again, don't press the clutch or brakes or shift gears.

End of valid drive cycle.

Note: Specific engine warmup conditions must be met in order to complete all OBD-II tests.

Engine running, ECT input increases 40 degrees AFTER engine startup has reached 160 degrees.

Keep in mind that there also is a re-learn process that needs to be done for correct idle.
In most cases you would for a MN6 based C5:

* Cold start and idle for 5 minutes ( all power functions are off)
* Turn on A/C only and continue to idle for another 5 minutes
* Turn A/C off, continue to idle for 5 minutes
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Last edited by Vintage 68; Jul 24th, 12 at 04:27 PM. Reason: fuse 20 vs. 23 ...
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 06:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

Many thanks to Dennis, Scott & John. John, I believe I'm going to try your "short technique", makes sense to me to pull the ECM/TCM fuses to bring back default "initial startup". This should work! I will let you know of my success. Oh, before I do, what does "WOT" mean? Now I've gotta siphon out about 8 gals of 87. Top tier Shell 93 should work just fine?
Very much appreciated! Thanx again. mike
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Old Jul 24th, 12, 06:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

Oh, "wide open throttle"?
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Old Jul 25th, 12, 11:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

John, Thanx again for the info. I ran across another thread on Camaro5 forum which says to turn off the ignition before pulling the fuses?

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/printthread.php?t=38964

Can you clarify. They may have it wrong and need to know this. You obviously know what your talking about. I won't be able to do this until this weekend anyway..too hot, humid & thunderstorms going on. Thank you...mike
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Old Jul 25th, 12, 01:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

I was relaying information specifically on the G5 Camaro I was given - I've only done the 're-learn' on some Corvette's and a couple other GM vehicles ...
I would see where "Key Off" would seem to make more sense, but the 'Vette procedure specifically states to pull fuses with 'Key On' so that's how I've done it to date.

For your procedure, I don't see why you couldn't try it first using the 'Key Off' procedure called out in the link you posted (I read several pages of it, but don't have time to read all of it right now )
If you don't get the results needed then try the 'Key On' procedure above
Gm has built such a robust ECM system I can't imagine pulling power (Key On) would have any effect on it

I'm still trying to get a complete understanding of the systems ability to change itself back to the High Advance and Upper Fuel Map/Table, based on re-learning the KES (Knock Event Sensing) or 'Learning' the engine isn't Knocking under a given throttle load.
My GM contact seems to think it should, based on the programming - I'm of the opinion it doesn't, or it's so dang slow at 'learning' it takes forever and is not noticeable or effective enough to be noticed ...

I think I'll go tune a old points & carb. set-up now to let my brain rest
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Old Jul 25th, 12, 04:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Re: Just bought a 2010 SS RS 6sp manual

Thank you John, I really appreciate your feedback. Ya got the right idea on the points & carb!! Amen to that .
Best, mike
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