Suspension and control arms - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 11, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
Jimmy
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sweden
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Suspension and control arms

I have a Camaro 69, sb350, th350 with stock suspension. Its time for a suspension upgrade, already bought the QA1 coilovers for the front.
I have read alot of treads about control arms and got confused, I want the pro touring look and better handling, will not use the car in any kind of racing och track driving.

If I understand the treads, the upper control arm is the most important piece to replace?

Would like to lower the car in the rear with leafspring to, and I have looked at the Ccp pro touring kit, quality?

Anyone know if there is any spring deals going on pro touring kits somewere.

Open for suggestions on what to do to improve the handling and look on the car
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 11, 04:05 PM
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Robert
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Welcome Jimmy. I'll jump in here with this one, but be warned you have opened up a can of worms with this topic. I'm sure you used the search function. You can find more than enough info on this type of topic.
I'm not familiar with the QA1 coilovers. I know of coilovers that need different Lower Control Arms so you might be replacing both UCA and LCA. You're right about the UCA and getting the best "bang for you buck" as far as helping with handling and camber improvement. If you're not going to be tracking the car, you can get by with cheaper modifications to make the car handle better. You can use taller upper ball joints for one quick and easy improvement. Front sway bar? Tire sizes? All these will have a say in handling.
Just go with a kit like the Hotchkis TVS. It's a kit so hopefully shipping price won't kill you and everything in it is designed to work with and complement the car. That means you'll be out on the coliovers though! IMO you don't need the coilovers. I know, everyone is doing them! lol
I'm not familiar with the CPP kit.
Look at www.pro-touring.com for a crap load of suspension threads and ideas.
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...928#post597928
http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...read-List-Here
Happy reading!

Robert

68 Camaro SS... getting there!!
"If happiness is in your destiny, you need not be in a hurry."
If I can only convince myself of this!

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 21st, 11, 07:11 PM
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Scott
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

I'm on p-t.com and ya there's a tone of info - use the search function. The qa1 arms will work with most arms as they were built for use with stock arms.
You are right that the lower arms don't do much but keep in mind that yours are 40 years old and stamped steel - maybe they'll last 40 more years and maybe they won't.
CCP makes a lot of cheap stuff and you get what you pay for. I've read horror stories about their boxes and I'm not sure I like they're customer service or upper arm design. That said I bought a set of their lower arms just for new arms.
Hotchkis is a little pricier than others but the whole setup is made to work together and does so really well according to many reports. So if you don't want to worry go that direction and it lowers your car just right with the rear springs. I'm not sure if it would be cheaper to buy the parts or the kit considering you already have shocks and front springs.
Another route would be speedtech as they have a complete setup that uses the coilovers you now have (450?). There upper arms come over the ears/tabs/mounts whatever you want to call them so you can redrill for a guldstrand mod if you want to but the arms alone are going to do a lot of correction on their own.
Some guys will scream at you if you even bring up Chinese ebay arms and some would say they are fine but I would stay away from them based on the inserts alone that they use for adjustment. Where would you get new ones if you screwed one up? You may save money but you'll get something that may or may not work.
I got summit rear springs and I don't know if they really have the drop they advertise but we'll see. I've got the cpp lowers and I'll be picking up speedtech uppers and qa1s - I'm just waiting for the right deal while I put my engine in.
These are just my thoughts. I think you'll find that most guys will tell you you can't go wrong with Hotchkis, Global West, Speedtech and Detroit Speed. There are some other companies you'll find that have an even more technical arm but it doesn't sound like you'll need them. If I hadn't made any purchases such as the rear springs and lower arms I would just get the Hotchkis TVS and be done with it.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 22nd, 11, 08:20 AM
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Mike
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosing View Post
I have a Camaro 69, sb350, th350 with stock suspension. Its time for a suspension upgrade, already bought the QA1 coilovers for the front.
I have read alot of treads about control arms and got confused, I want the pro touring look and better handling, will not use the car in any kind of racing och track driving.

If I understand the treads, the upper control arm is the most important piece to replace?

Would like to lower the car in the rear with leafspring to, and I have looked at the Ccp pro touring kit, quality?

Anyone know if there is any spring deals going on pro touring kits somewere.

Open for suggestions on what to do to improve the handling and look on the car
Tubular UCAs allow for more caster, but don't do correct the insufficient camber gain of the first gen Camaro's front suspension.

If you do the Guldstrand mod (redrill the UCA mounting point lower and back from the stock mounting points) with stock UCAs, you have to cut the "ears" on the UCA mounting point off for clearance, and you then cannot easily reverse the G mod.

If you do the G mod and use tubular arms, the tubular arms should clear the "ears" on the UCA mounting point without cutting them off and allow you to reverse the G mod. So the principal actual benefit of tubular arms is clearance of the UCA mounting point when doing the G mod.

Here's another thread from Pro-touring.com that discusses most of the currently available front and rear suspension options, together with estimates of the parts (but not labor) costs of each. Don't let it scare you, it starts out pretty high end, but gets on to some pretty inexpensive solutions: http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...ponents-to-buy

Mike - '68 Camaro - aftermarket or modern pretty much everything.


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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old Apr 26th, 11, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
Jimmy
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Thanks for the replys, good information and suggestions . My eyes is now on Speedtech and Hotchkis, will search the web for the best deal include shipping to Sweden.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 11, 06:52 PM
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Hotchkis
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosing View Post
Thanks for the replys, good information and suggestions . My eyes is now on Speedtech and Hotchkis, will search the web for the best deal include shipping to Sweden.
Hi Bosing - Lots of smart people on this thread. We'd be happy to ship to Sweden, or get you in touch with a dealer nearby. Just so you know, not all Upper Control Arms correct the geometry, so don't be fooled by some of the very cheap copies you'll see online.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 11, 06:57 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotchkis View Post
Hi Bosing - Lots of smart people on this thread. We'd be happy to ship to Sweden, or get you in touch with a dealer nearby. Just so you know, not all Upper Control Arms correct the geometry, so don't be fooled by some of the very cheap copies you'll see online.
Nor do the Hotchkis arms. The Gmod, tall ball joints or tall spindles are the only effective correction for the lack of camber gain in a first generation Camaro.

You guys have a good enough product without misleading consumers concerning what it does and doesn't do.

Mike - '68 Camaro - aftermarket or modern pretty much everything.


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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old May 2nd, 11, 07:41 PM
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Let me just chime in and say there is a lot of information out there. I read and read and still wound up buying my front suspension, and rear suspension for that matter, twice because I did not want to spend a lot of money. Camaros have bad front ends. To make them "look" like a racecar and drive like one (sort of) takes time and money. If I had to do it again, I would eat the cost of good spindle, buy brakes that worked with them, true coil overs, not bolt in junk, and arms last. I bought a package and wound up replacing everything in it because it would not perform like I wanted. I wanted a car that looked cool getting icecream at the local joint. I did not want a bad penny or OLC. You can't just throw some drop springs on these cars like everything else. Just don't work.

For the record, Hotchkis was not the "package" I bought. I don't want to sound like I was responding to their post.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old May 12th, 11, 07:53 PM
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Hotchkis
 
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Re: Suspension and control arms

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkelcy View Post
Nor do the Hotchkis arms. The Gmod, tall ball joints or tall spindles are the only effective correction for the lack of camber gain in a first generation Camaro.

You guys have a good enough product without misleading consumers concerning what it does and doesn't do.
Mkelcy Hotchkis arms do address some of the geometry deficiencies by relocating the upper ball joint for more positive caster. Performing the Guldstrand Mod is the most cost-effective way to change the camber gain problems associated with the first gen F-body and second gen X-body front suspension.


Other benefits of our arms are fully tig-welded construction, 4130 chromoly offset crossshafts (with adjustment bushing), and Delrin bushings.
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