"Someday, My '68 Camaro..." - Team Camaro Tech
Pro Touring Todays performance with classic style

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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 13, 06:08 AM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Post "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

'Bout time I start a thread here I suppose seeing as how I joined Team Camaro almost 5 years ago.

Time flies, waits for no one. I know there are a few over here that scoff at cars with project names. I am not trying to get all high and mighty by calling my car by something other than a girls name, although when "Ashley" was suggested in my welcome thread linked above that would have been somewhat appropriate for a flamed Camaro surviving 2 fires. Rather, it is a name more for the thread to set one apart from another.

Some of you may have seen my meager thread on Lateral-G which is a great resource I also frequent. I toggle back/forth between these forums regularly as do several like minded Team Members.

I decided to share my passion over here too so that I can get to know and gain inspiration from a few more Camaro lovers, and maybe with any luck give someone else a little useful information among my babble. Besides that, 9/10's of the time when I have a Camaro question I seek the answer here!

I have taken to calling my Camaro's thread "Someday" for all the times I have said to myself or those close to me, "Someday, my '68 Camaro..."

As for the "Pro-Touring" part, no offense but to date there is nothing Pro-fessional going on here. I would have been fired for lack of productivity long ago and I have not had a whole lot of help besides Jodi on occasion. Her help is what has kept me on task at times and enabled me to keep moving forward, even when it is hard to chart my progress. Another reason I decided to post over here is that there is a lot of Pro-builds over there and some mad fab skills. I am not on the cutting edge or reinventing a thing. Just a guy trying to make an old car I love drive like I have always dreamed, looking good doing it would be a huge plus.

Here’s a few pictures:

Morning after the '07 garage fire, 2nd one this paint has seen fortunately with not much more than smoke damage each time. Painted in '96 it shows it's age and the theme would not be repeated by me now... but, we live with our choices.

Winter '09

Summer '12


Basic specs=
Engine:
Original numbers matching 327 block, rebuilt in the early 1990’s...030” over, Crane Fireball II 302h cam, 241 Camelbacks with 2.02 SS valves, hardened seats and stamped roller rockers. 10:1 pistons, I’m not sure where that compression ratio may have gone with these heads’ chambers. Currently topped with an early non-airgap Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and 600cfm Performer carb.
Also have a Barry Grant Speed Demon 650 Vacuum Secondary I picked up.
Fuel: Ricks tank, narrowed and clipped corners, equipped with a low pressure AC Delco pump

Exhaust:
currently Hooker Competition Headers, 3-2” collectors, turbo mufflers in front of the axle and turndowns between fender and leaf spring installed in 1993
Thinking maybe Dynatech’s and 2.5” Magnaflow system...Someday.

Cooling:
Dual fan, dual pass LS radiator by PRC.
B&M polished Aluminum water pump
Milodon high flow thermostat drilled for bypass.

Transmission: I'll be removing the third th350 that I have had built in this car since I’ve owned it in favor of a T56 Magnum close ratio conversion with American Powertrain.

Rear Differential:
Swapping my original 8.2”10 bolt 3.08 one wheel wonder for another with Richmond 3.73, Eaton Posi, and disc brakes. Maybe “Someday” I can get a 12 bolt or a 9” if I up the torque.

Front Suspension and Steering:
AGR 12:1 steering gear with firm valving
AGR OE style pump in OE reservoir.
All new steering linkage, I/O tie rods, idler and pitman arm. Ridetech tie rod adjusters.
Hellwig 1 1/8" Tubular front swaybar
currently SSBC disc spindles. ATS tall spindles (will go on with Wilwood 13’s)
Hotchkis 2” drop front coils for SBC
Hotchkis/Bilstein HKS 2000 shock absorbers
SPC tubular lower control arms, with ride height tuning kit.
Speedtech High Clearance upper arm.

Chassis:
swapping to another arrow straight stock subframe... I will weld the seams and make a couple reinforcements to it.
Speedtech body mounts.
Competition Engineering bolt-in subframe connectors., likely going to DSE weld-ins instead for clearance.


Rear suspension:
currently OEM monoleaf
soon, Global West L2-R2 2” drop reverse eye leaf springs, 103sh delrin shackles, mono-multi conversion cnc’d spacer blocks by Jodi’s brother, DSE u-bolts and shock plates
Hotchkis/Bilstein HKS 2000 rear shock absorbers

Brakes:
Depending on the length of time I am running the SSBC kit complete clamping the binders will either be:
1. SSBC A123 kit with 1 ⅛” master cylinder/booster and inline proportioning valve
or
2. Wilwood ⅞”(manual) bore master cylinder and combination proportioning valve/distribution block

Front =
currently, SSBC A123 11” rotors and single piston calipers
with the ATS spindles, 13” Wilwood radial mount, 6 piston 140-8921 d/s
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Bra...mno=140-8921-D
Rear = currently OEM manual drum

Wheels and Tires:
Front =American Racing Torque Thrust II's 17x8, 4.5" Backspace with Fuzion 235/40r17's
Rear = American Racing Torque Thrust II's 17x9.5, 5.5" Backspace with Fuzion 275/40/r17's

Interior:
Gauges-currently stock speedo and fuel, vdo tach on column, with a 4 pod forward console.-->Looking at NewVintageUSA, Speedhut and Dakota Digital and similar versions that would combine 6 guages into the factory speedo/fuel two place pod. Other suggestions welcome.
American Powertrain White Lightning shifter
OEM Black Deluxe interior with console.
Originally gold, front seat covers and dash pad replaced in ‘89 with black. Rear seat dyed. kick panels etc... painted or dyed.
Eastwood Thermocoustic Barrier floor and firewall.
Steering wheel = Grant 13” 3 spoke “GT” wheel for now.
also still have sewn black leather wrapped OE n90 Deluxe wheel
Want: Morris Classic Concepts 3 point belts which I’d like to do for user friendly safety enhancement.

Electrical:
Mad Electrical “New System” with trunk mounted battery relocation kit and a few relay kits.
Digitails, tail/brake and front marker/TS

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 23rd, 13, 02:11 PM
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Al
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Nice project Robert! I read the thread at Lateral-G also..

Mine has been an ongoing jack-stand project for years. I plan out my projects and work on it in the winter, but never more than I can get done before summer arrives so I can drive it! Believe it or not my big project so far this winter has been to install a volt meter and that might be it.

Keep plugging away at it - my advice is to not get too many things going at once so you can get some drive time in between.


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 13, 06:11 AM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Thanks Al!

"Plan?" What is this "Plan" of which you speak?

Just kidding of course... The delays all ultimately fall upon me one way or another but let me try to illustrate a timeline of how Life keeps getting in the way of the dream in detail a little later.

For now, winter is easing it’s grip and the garage is becoming tolerable. I am currently running a 220v service out there and intend to buy an HTP Mig200 with my tax rebate. Of course running this wireing means I have to remove the moajority of the parts listed above from the shelves in front of the garage and take half the shelves down to get at the sheetrock.

I was very close to drivable in 2011. In fact I had an appointment for alignment and fired the motor for the first time since 2004. Sadly, preparing for that alignment was when I discovered that my subframe had issues remaining from the 1996 accident. Those issues were supposedly highlighted or exaggerated when I took the motor mounts loose to replace them due to torn rubber. Good thing I did because one was completely separated. All anyone can surmise is that the frame had stored energy all those years and the engine was acting as a spreader bar of sorts. Since then I have sourced not one but TWO first gen subframes. One original complete with tires, gearbox etc.. and one bare. I had the bare one checked out and finessed a little last fall. It will be the one getting more TLC and then replace the one in my car. Unfortunately, that means I have to get further from drivable in order to get closer.

As I mentioned I want to add a snapshot of my 24 year timeline later but for now I will just add that moving twice in 12 months did not help recent progress.

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 13, 06:57 AM
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

I thought this was you Robert... Welcome. I haven't been on Lat-G in sometime.

68 Camaro SS... getting there!!
"If happiness is in your destiny, you need not be in a hurry."
If I can only convince myself of this!

My slooow build thread
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 24th, 13, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBS6T8 View Post
I thought this was you Robert... Welcome. I haven't been on Lat-G in sometime.
Thanks for the welcome Rob! I'm on there daily it seems but at times it feels like the other fish in that pond keep getting bigger and bigger.

By that I mean that when I think about posting on my thread over there it is fairly easy for me to feel like what I might have to say is a little underwhelming compared to the average Lat-G caliber build; creates something of a wallflower effect to where I just let my thread sleep unless I have something I feel worthy of posting... especially when progress is slow and the budget is as frozen as the lakes are here in MN right now...as is the garage for that matter.

I really enjoy the camaraderie, advice and inspiration I gain from the car forums and in some ways it helps me more than my local club because there are many more forum members familiar with similar project experience.

There is an orange 68 that falls into under the category described in the last paragraph in case you didn't know. Tangelo was the name of the color if I remember correctly... body color dash, semi-provocative build name, thread starts with a flamed mailbox. Although, in MY OPINION the old color did not suck.


Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 13, 07:44 AM
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Thans for the kind words Robert.
I've been doing too much other stuff around the ranch and got "burned" out working on her after the Hto August Nights thing.
I know what you mean by underwhelming posts. I keep asking myself where these people get the money?
Now she just sits there because I'm having issues with the TDC mark or should I say marks on the bakancer and the timing... frustrating! I keep asking the wife if she's bought my motor yet. It would be much easier in my eyes to start new!
I agree blue is a very nice color. If the wife had it her way, it would have been painted LeMans blue. But she loves the Tangelo.
I guess I could move on to the interior. Maybe it would quiet it down a little? Oh wait, it is quiet. It's not running!
Get to work. I'll be checking in for updates.

How do you like the SPC lowers? I got the SPC uppers and kept the stock lowers... for now.

68 Camaro SS... getting there!!
"If happiness is in your destiny, you need not be in a hurry."
If I can only convince myself of this!

My slooow build thread
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 25th, 13, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Most of the parts I have are second-hand... the term "used for mock-up only" seems to attract my attention. The SPC lowers I have came off of a Camaro that was switched to full air ride. If memory serves there is one rock chip I noticed otherwise they would pass for new, and I think I paid less than 50% of new.
What appealed to me is the 1 degree of caster supposedly built into them... I read about extreme caster causing the wheels to move rearward in the wheelwell so I figured that makes sense. I also like the height adjustment feature, as well as ability to use coil spring or coil over.
Like 9/10's of my parts they sit in a box... and having just moved that box to run my 220v wiring I can tell you they are not lightweight. They are pretty beefy and not the prettiest welds in all areas but this is a part that needs to be stout.
Oddly, LeMans blue and most shades any lighter than that do not float my boat so much. I really like a deep royal and darker shades the best... and darker ones simply must have some POP in the sun or you can keep those too. Tangelo is a pretty kick @$$ choice in my opinion. Have a creamsicle and know you chose well.

I will get some updates out soon, I also have some general questions to post if I dig up the pictures.

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old Feb 27th, 13, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Question Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Can someone tell me how much play is supposed to exist where the clutch pedal attaches to the pin pressed through it serving as a pivot?

When installed in the car there is a noticable amount of slop here and I considered a weld bead to tack it in place. I could only see it getting more play with use.

The play is a side to side motion of the pedal, it is not rotational or anything that would give a false indication of clutch free play.



For another view it is the spot my red sharpie is pointing at.


Here is a hint of one upcoming endeavor.

That shot is taken in the dark, looking into the trunk with a trouble light on the floor below the car!



I am trying to decide where to cut and butt-weld in the new pan. I was considering the line until I looked at access to that area for dressing the welds from underneath and got cold feet.

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 3rd, 13, 05:26 PM
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Mike
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roberts68 View Post
I am trying to decide where to cut and butt-weld in the new pan. I was considering the line until I looked at access to that area for dressing the welds from underneath and got cold feet.
Here is where I cut mine. Right on the frame rail flange on each side. Nothing to dress from underneath ay least on the sides, plus welding was much easier there.
















Mike


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 3rd, 13, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Those pictures are terrific Mike, thank you for posting. I'm not planning on going quite as far forward as you did but I plan to leave the tank straps as you did.
I like the frame rail idea and saw that on a V8TV build. I think I will follow that suggestion.
I'm a little reluctant or uncertain where I want to seam the rear. Only the bottom of my pan was porous or rusty...
I'm not sure I am brave enough to try mating two panels with all the radiuses that there are at the back by the filler neck though.

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 10:58 AM
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Al
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

I did mine much the same as Mike68. Mine is a 69 so slightly different at the filler neck. I can't tell from Mike's photos but it looks like the holes he drilled for the plug welds to the tanks supports were pretty small. I used a 5/16" bit for those.

I sprayed it with Zolatone, which I highly recommend. http://www.zolatoneaim.com/trunk-spatter

I did overlap welds as I didn't trust that I could cut accurately enough for a gapless butt weld.













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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 12:00 PM
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Al
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Another place to check for rot in the trunk is the space between the bumper braces on either side. Mine was rotten on the pass side only, so I removed the brace, cut out the rot and welded in a patch then replaced the brace. ( I welded a chunk of flat bar to box in the u-channel just so I'd have something more substantial to weld to - don't tell anyone it's there)













The dog was thoroughly unimpressed.



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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

Looks like you ran your seam pretty tight to the rear of the car. Was that for any particular reasons you can divulge?
In my case I am trying to restore an area within the confines of a paint job I am not ready to give up on yet... nor can I afford to. That is one reason I do not want to go all the way to the rear.

With regards to your bumper bracket tie in...

Damn. I hope that your additional advice is irrelevant and completely out of context for me... but I will check her out for sure and report back.

Thanks for the heads up!

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 4th, 13, 12:22 PM
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Al
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

I went back that far because I didn't trust that I could do a decent job cutting/splicing/welding the new floor around the old fuel filler hump. So it required that I remove the trunk latch support, which isn't as scary as it sounds. A couple of spot welds on each leg as I recall and three or four in the weatherstrip channel.

My car was/is also painted at the time, so the only hairy part was doing the plug welds in the weatherstrip channel, but I did no damage. (wet rags around the weld area to absorb heat)

I also had to remove this brace, which goes in behind the trunk latch support, which was kind of a pain as it was hard to tell where the spot welds were. I assume a 68 has something similar.



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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old Mar 15th, 13, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
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Robert
 
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Re: "Someday, My '68 Camaro..."

I don't know why but I missed your last update BPOS. I loved the dog's opinion injection. I try to get Brutus to hang out in the garage with me but he prefers to be either actively catching frisbees, sniffing the neighboring dogs poop or in the house being generally spoiled by Jodi... which I am rather partial to myself so I can relate to the latter.

Yesterday was a good Camaro day. I completed re-installing the sheetrock I removed to run my 220v welder service and I placed an order with Matt's Classic Bowties.
Matt and Kim treated me pretty well and I am eagerly awaiting my Speedtech upper control arms, DSE subframe connectors and Morris Classic Custom Clearshot mirrors.
Here is a little image copy/paste from the One Lap Camaro with the same upper arms. Speedtech recommends their flatter high clearance upper arm to go with my tall ATS spindles. This is an especially "big deal" to me because the upper arms represent one of my major puzzle pieces that I was waiting on therefore "SOMEDAY" draws one step closer.

Same old '68 since 6/24/89
(Well, with a few changes along the way)

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