Newbie with a question "Survivor" - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Hi! Great site. I'm glad that I found it. What is the definition of "Survivor"? Thanks.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 08:16 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Survivor is a term we're "not allowed to use anymore" because it has been copyrighted by the bloomington gold corvette people

Ya, I don't get that either.

It means a car that has survived the years unscathed and untouched. Still wears the paint it left the factory with, original interior, orignal "born with" drivetrain, minimal changes over the years. These days, survivors are the most rare of collector cars, and are highly sought after.

One of our members owns the 67 Camaro SS convertible that actually paced the 1967 Indy 500. It is one of one, in totally original unrestored condition. It gives me the shivers just to look at it, a true time capsule, and one of the most valuable Camaro's in existence today.





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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 08:20 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Welcome to Team Camaro. Survivor can mean different things to different people. It isnt like saying the sky is blue. Most often survivor is a car that has survived its life with no changes to it, other than maybe tires, belts, hoses that wear out and need to be changed. To some, survivor also means having all its original engine, tranny and drivetrain and none of them have been 'overhauled' or altered.
Again, there is no cast in stone definition for it, and some people, especially on ebay, use the term without regard for what car folks think it means. It can be very misleading to see a car named survivor and its had all kinds of changes to it, like carb and intake, interior, radio etc..
Its like water, the term survivor is fluid so dont count on it to mean exactly anything.
Thats my 2cents and Im sure others will comment.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 08:21 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

we both posted at the same time

Click..is Jim..former owner of a 69RS-LM1 350/255 - 700r
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 09:19 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

..here is another definition..They are ALL survivors..


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 11:15 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Hello and welcome. My definition of a "Survivor Car" and I would say most people's definition....is one that is as close to original (Untouched) from the day it left the factory. Most "Survivor" or "Untouched" Camaros would be found tucked away in a barn or garage somewhere out in the country where the car has been sitting for many years with very low mileage. They are very rare, but some people are lucky enough to stumble upon these rare barn cars every once in a while.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old May 8th, 07, 12:12 PM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Quote:
Most often survivor is a car that has survived its life with no changes to it, other than maybe tires, belts, hoses that wear out and need to be changed.
thats my definition of a survivor car. Original paint and interior.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old May 9th, 07, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Thanks for the information. It is quite confusing when the term "survivor or numbers matching" is used. I have seen on ebay and even on this site people describing a car using these terms. I just had to ask. So if a car has had any paint work (repaint fender or quarter panel) and no longer retains the drive train it had when it left the factory it would not be a "survivor". Thanks.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old May 9th, 07, 08:39 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

I would expand that a bit Babes... Having a fender bender during it's life and being repaired and spot painting the fender to match the orig paint shouldn't kill the survivor status of a car.

...Dennis

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old May 9th, 07, 09:02 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Just for sake of argument....
SO a car that was wrecked in the front fender and the fender was repainted IS a survivor, yet a car that was never wrecked and repainted (with factory color) to further protect the car and has everything else original is NOT a survivor?

Here's my take:

A Survivor car is an unmolested original car. That means, to me, that nothing has been changed on the car from it's original state with the exception of maintaining it's originality. if ya really think about it, with a few exceptions, almost everything on a car is a wear item. If a car has been repainted with original color because the paint was wearing out after almost 40 years...you are giving the car the opportunity to survive by protecting the metal.

By "unmolested" , and by the very definition of the negative connotation of molested....repainting a car whos paint has worn is far from molesting the car.
You are carrying on it's ability to "survive".

Survivors , to me are cars in thier original setup, free from non factory items being added or changed. If ya change motors or drivetrain...not a survivor.
If ya have an all original car and repaint it same as factory color...to me, still a survivor.


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old May 9th, 07, 10:18 AM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

UT - I have an acquaintance that is a collector of old Lincolns. He has restored as well as survivor cars and shows them at high profile shows like the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. He has many blue ribbon awards to go with his collection of survivors. His survivor cars have brass showing through chrome and primer showing through paint from the years of polishing. That is a patina that comes with time and is expected. In his world you would never spot over this or re-chrome a grill. If the car was damaged in an accident and was spotted but the majority of the cars body were still covered in factory paint it would not be excluded from the survivor classification. If the car ever was completely repainted along its life span it could never be concidered a survivor by the standards used at the level of judging these cars go through. For that reason this gentleman also has completely restored cars in his collection.

I don't know where a line should be drawn, does a car that got a dent fixed or the carpet replaced but everything else is orig deserve to loose the susvivor title and fall into the restored class? This isn't something we will get everyone to agree with and more words get pulled into the picture to try to help refine the classification. We here "re-paint" to denote a car with it's orig drive train and interior but been repainted, an almost survivor. I guess the important thing is survivor can mean something different to each one of us... Even with a full restoration a car that started life in 1967 is a survivor just in the fact that it's been a car in one shape or another for the past 40 years.

...Dennis

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old May 9th, 07, 02:46 PM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Yeah, I understand, like I said ...just for sake of argument after you commented that a car that had been wrecked and just the fender repainted would not lose "survivor" status.

I still think, and the car world may disagree, that if the car is comprised of 95-100 percent of it's original parts, and is the same color it came out of the factory...it is a survivor.

Maybe I take this somewhat personally because mine is like that, ALL original except one repaint in 1985 and painted original color.

I just have a hard time accepting that a car that was wrecked on the fender, bondoed (because there would HAVE to be at the very least a little) and repainted could still be considered a survivor...and a car with no bondo and repainted factory color isn't.

Like you said...just opinions and who really cares I guess. Except maybe some concourse judge in thier "survivor" judging.


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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old May 10th, 07, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Question Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

Thanks for the help explaining this to me. I was looking at a 1969 Z/RS on ebay which was advertised as a "Survivor". It doesn't have the original engine or transmission in it. Says that he has been invited to participate in the Vintage Camaro Certification Program in Carlisle this summer. If it doesn't sell maybe I will see it there. How does one get invited to Carlisle anyway?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old May 12th, 07, 07:29 PM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

"survivor" is also a term used on Ebay and by other dealers to increase the perception of desirability (and therefore price) of a classic car....
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old May 12th, 07, 07:37 PM
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Re: Newbie with a question "Survivor"

According to the Bloomington Gold website, aforementioned owner of the "Survivor" trademark, the definition of a certified Survivor is:

Survivors are cars that are at least 20 years old (1987ís and older) and judged to be over 50%unrestored, yet with finishes and condition good enough to use as a reference model for authentic restoration of a car just like it.

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