Anyone with a Procharger and EFI? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 12, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

Which unit do you have? Does anyone know which is better? Cost is a factor too.
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 22nd, 12, 10:14 PM
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

There is not even remotely enough info there to answer the question, motor, power goals, etc., etc.

Vortech are less expensive it seems, Procharger are far more common and well liked. There are guys on here that have them and about 10 reputable vendors that sell both.

I'm looking at different centrifugal blowers for my new motor too, but it's going to be a blow through (it really shouldn't matter efi or carb for the most part, but EFI generally needs an intercooler sooner). You really need to have a goal in mind when you start putting the entire package together.

Whatcha got and whats the goal?

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 12, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

Well actually it is already together. It is a 496 with 8-1 compression, it has a blower cam, eagle forged rotating assembly, mahle blower pistons, merlin iron heads. I have a weiand stealth plane dual intake. Right now I am running a C&S carb 750. I have tuned it fairly well cruise is good wot is good just in between is a bit stumbly. I am just thinking with f.i. I will not have to micro tune at every elevation change weather change etc. My biggest problem is I can not just roll into the throttle to not spin the tires, it either likes to cruise or wot in between is a pain in the but.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 12, 10:43 AM
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

Ah I see, you are further along than I am. What blower are you running?

Not having direct experience tuning a blow through (yet) I can't be positive of the issue you are seeing, but I know guys with blow throughs and they can get them dialed right in and run great, I have heard horror stories as well.
The dual plane intake may be making it harder too.

I would call C&S first and see if you can work through the tuning issues probably, I have heard they are good to work with. I know EFI is going to be forgiving more so, but the blow through carbs are really good now, I have heard they get tough after 1000 horse.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 12, 10:47 AM
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

Quck question... Why are you looking to go EFI instead of blow through?


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Then: N/A, 436 ci, Stock Block, Track 1's, Stock Suspension, Ranchos, 3250 lbs... 1.33 60 ft / 9.69 @ 138 mph
Now: Boost...
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 12, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

I think just ease of tuning(for guy asking why efi). The procharger I am running is the d1sc with the smallest pulley. I do not go over 6k rpm which will max out the blower anyway. I will give Roger a call He helped me get it this far. I am very pleased with him and his company.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 23rd, 12, 04:26 PM
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

You need to lose the dual plane intake.
Distribution is important when you start adding boost.

Of course, going with EFI & you will lose that intake anyway.
FAST & Accel DFI are both good setups with boost... others are as well, but these I have the most experience with. Do not consider any type of TBI systems, go for port injection with an individual injector per cylinder.

Blow through can work well & gives a slight intercooling effect as the carb atomizes fuel.
You will spend quite a bit of time getting it tuned perfectly. Remember as air density changes, superchargers change their output (boost goes up as it gets cooler) & carbs are largely velocity based so they do not compensate for this well. This will cause you to tune it rich/safe so you are not constantly re jetting.

Preferrably the compression should be higher as well with a centrifugal.
This helps driveability & also significantly helps the power output. I have never built a centrifugal blower setup with under 9:1 compression.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 12, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

I guess what is done is done as far as compression goes, so I can not afford to make that change. I have heard of many people running 8-1 and was recommended by a known engine builder. I guess because of the blower if I went to 9-1 I could have used less boost to fall in line within the constraints of pump gas. You say you have had experience with fast and dfi. That is kind of what I need to know how happy the people were with ease of set up and cost. I have also heard that Holley makes a dominator set up that is easy to set up and reasonable cost. I will not have the bucks for efi until summer anyway but I do like to hear what people recommend from experience not what the companies write up. Thanks
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 12, 10:29 AM
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Re: anyone with a procharger and efi?

To each their own, but I must disagree with the belief that EFI is easier to tune. I understand its capability with flexibility for tuning individual cylinders, etc. but I am certain a blow through setup is simple and consistent (and drive able and fast). i have one, and many of my friends do too. I considered EFI and after all was said nd done I chose blow through. Again, to each their own, and good luck.


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Then: N/A, 436 ci, Stock Block, Track 1's, Stock Suspension, Ranchos, 3250 lbs... 1.33 60 ft / 9.69 @ 138 mph
Now: Boost...
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 12, 11:13 AM
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

I have not done it yet but from what I have seen I agree with Jim, blow through has been so well figured out now they can run awesome. Thats the route I'm going.
If you decide to go with FAST I know a guy in AZ that really knows his stuff with that sytem.

Sean

1968 rs with an old school 354" SB2.2 pump gas motor.

Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 24th, 12, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

Well the C&S carb is great that I have. I had it tuned well when I was in Arizona I am now in the Niagra region in New York. I have to tune it all over again. At this point I will start with a jet change and see how that works. I will likely be back on the phone with Roger at C&S he has been very patient at helping me out. I do not have screw in air bleeds so I had drilled them out to run a little leaner in Az hopefully I do not have to mess with them or I will be tapping out and installing screw ins. That is what makes me want the efi, so...
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 12, 07:46 AM
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

Hello, I have a Procharger D1-SC on a HO 454 (8.75:1) with retrotek speed TBI system. It is an older model and autotunes. I had to increase the size of the injectors to 92 Lbs. each and get a new load from Retrotek. Once started it began to autotune and runs well. I live in Denver so having the ability to autotune when I go up in the mountains is a plus. IT could use a good final tune by an expert but haven't found a good tuner in Denver yet. I have run mine with and without a intercooler. Little more lag with the intercooler. Another reason to find a good tuner. All in all it works well. I wish one of these magazines would do an article on my set up. They have done a D1-SC with a blow thru with a cam change and got 720 HP without any problem. Sure would like to see what they could do with a FAST, Holley or Accel system?

_______________________________
69 Camaro, Air Ride Suspension,
Procharged HO 454, 700R4, 12 bolt with Yukon axles, 3:73 gears posi, Pypes 2.5" X pipe with Borla XS mufflers. Retrotek Speed EFI, Ridetech suspension.
Rushforth rated X with Toyo tires. MSD 6 ignition.
Wilwood 6 piston Dynalite disc brakes with Hydratech booster.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 12, 08:29 AM
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

The 8:1 compression recommendation seems to come from the roots supercharger theory. Centrifugals do not create as much heat & can tolerate more compression.

What I have found is that as you lower compresion, you end up running more boost just to make the same power.

Never used the Holley dominator system...

For me the FAST was easy to setup, takes a good day to get everything dialed in.
Driveability, cold start, etc. takes much more time than full throttle tuning.

DFI has a few more tuning parameters if you are trying to get precise with your tune.

As stated above, EFI is can be more intimidating to tune, but the extra effort getting it right, means never retuning for weather or altitude changes. Plus the mileage & driveability that comes with it is hard to beat.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 12, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

Thanks The guys who built the engine new it would be a procharger so I can not speak for him on why he decided 8-1 was ok. I do not run an inter cooler but I do have water methanol. I found a local tuner but being winter he recommended waiting til the temps reach into the 60's. I will check out retrotek but I think popular hotrodding had an article with a big block with the accel dfi. I tend to drive the car as a cruiser more than a race car so I think the driveablity for me is a big thing.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old Nov 25th, 12, 09:45 AM
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Re: Anyone with a Procharger and EFI?

Also I would go straight methanol instead of methanol/water mix.
Seems to work much better in my experience... plus it's free octane.

Look into the company Alkycontrol they have a great kit.
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