Power to coils? - Team Camaro Tech
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Power to coils?

I'm not getting the signal to the coils to fire them.
Running the factory LS2 GTO E40 ECM which is working. Unfortunately ScanXL isn't licensed to scan the coils.
I know the ECM is powered because I wouldn't get any scan data if it wasn't. I've got all the schematics I need but have no idea how the ECM talks to the coils.
Ideas?

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 10:57 AM
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Re: Power to coils?

Got your crank sensor signal?

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

I know its getting 12v. It drops to 9.5 during cranking.
I don't see any change on the signal circuit to\from it. I didn't see a change in signal at the coils either, but that's not surprising since they're not getting power.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 12:52 PM
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Re: Power to coils?

Isn't the LS2 crank sensor supposed to be 5V supply?

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 01:26 PM
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Re: Power to coils?

IIRC they get their power directly from the fuse block from two(2) 20A fuses - INJ-A and INJ-B.
The power is supplied to the injector 'banks' via the Pink/Pink-Blk/Pink-Wht wires.
The injectors are then wired back to the ECM to be 'Grounded' as required by the controls to trigger them.

Your can try jumping a 12vdc Feed to one of the banks and then checking to see if the 'fire' with a NOID.

Be aware a grounded (bad) injector or problem in the wiring taking the signal to ground will prevent the injectors from firing ...
Try checking resistance across each injector (unplugged) and see if any are low.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

I have no idea what the signal voltages are supposed to be for any of the sensors. That would be a good thing to know at this point.

John, the coils are controlled by the computer. The schematics show nothing about a voltage going to them.
But I do have a circuit to the coils with a label I don't know where it originates. Its not explained in the schematic. Its circuit S137 and S138. I don't have enough info in front of me to know what those are.
There are no connectors unplugged that have anything to do with power to anything.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 02:24 PM
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Re: Power to coils?

With your monitoring software running, are you seeing any RPM during cranking?

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 02:29 PM
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Red face Re: Power to coils?

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Originally Posted by HwyStarJoe View Post
I have no idea what the signal voltages are supposed to be for any of the sensors. That would be a good thing to know at this point.

John, the coils are controlled by the computer. The schematics show nothing about a voltage going to them. ....

You asked about COILS - and I took off on a rant about injectors

The coils get two (2) voltage feeds - a 12vdc switched signal from the ignition relay and then a 5vdc signal from Crank sensor (GM calls it a 'sequencer' input).
The 12v feed is for coil Primary winding and is the 'D' input on the connector at coil.
The 5v sequencer feed is in on the 'C' terminal of connector. This powers the coil trigger that grounds/collapses the primary potential onto the Secondary windings and triggers the spark. The trigger ground, back to sequencer, is Terminal 'B' on connector.
The last terminal is 'A' which is the Ground for coil back to block ...

Soooo - you need a switched source of 12vdc to that 'D' terminal circuit to allow the coils power
Again, a temp jumper here will allow you to fire engine - if crank sensor system is connected correctly ...

Hope some of this response is less than last ...

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

Yes, the scanner shows a couple hundred RPMs.

John....while I was scratching my head bent over the fender, I see you're right. I need to get 12v to them. Now I'm wondering why they don't already have it.

I know I'm missing the power train interface module. That could be where I'm stumbling. Then again, I don't have the donor cars fuse blocks either.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 05:13 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Power to coils?

Correct power to the coils is almost as important as the rest of the signal connections - almost ...

I re-read some of what I wrote and the more I think on it - I'm not home and don't have schematic in front of me - I need to clarify a couple things.
* The 5vdc ('C' terminal) signal to the coil(s) does come from the ECM via individual pin-outs as has been discussed, the crank sensor triggers the outputs to these via ECM, but not directly as it reads in my reply ... It's just as important to the system, just not directly connected ...
* The 'ground' ('B' terminal) goes directly back to the ECM also. This is actually some sort of 'low' reference signal to the ECM, but functions same as a common ground for either bank of coils.
* IIRC I once traced the Pink power feed wires ('D' terminal at coil connector) from both banks back to the underwood fuse block with feed source of the same two (2) 20A circuits (INJ-A/ING-B) that we're feeding the Injectors.
Kinda makes some sense they would use the same feed for both systems since you need them in tandem to run the engine ...

Hope some of this helps and I'm not you even more.
I swear I feel I don't understand half of the wiring under a hood anymore - but I can fix and start just about all of them if I try hard enough
When I get home I'll peruse my LS info to see if can make any of this any more clear-as-mud
Good thing I'm so far away you can throw anything at me

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 29th, 13, 05:21 PM
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Re: Power to coils?

As John suggests, each side of the engine gets 'HOT in RUN, BULB TEST and START', pink wire, and also same supply goes to the same side injectors, same 15 amp fuse per side/supply. Labeled INJ1 & INJ2 fuses

REF LO, brown wire to 1.3.5.7, REF LO, brown/white to 2,4,6,8.
GRD to GRD
IGN CTRL 1 = purple, IC 3 = LT BLUe, IC 5=dk grn, IC 7=red
IC 2=red/wht, IC4=dk grn/wht, IC6=lt blue/wht, IC8=PPL/WHT

John typed faster than I did this time. My info from 2000 LS1.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 13, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

Thanks y'all...
Sorry for the delay in answering... wife wanted to go see Trombone Shorty at the Jazz Fest last night.


Now that I know the coils (and most likely the injectors) are starving for power, I'm wondering WHERE they got fed the 12V from in the donor car. There aren't any unaccounted for connectors or bulkheads that I can find. So, I have to decide how to go about powering them.
I know I'm going to put the coils and the injectors on separate fused relays. Just gotta figure out where to tap into eaches circuits to power them on IGN.
That's why I'd love to know how\where they got their power originally. I'll shoot over to LS2.com and ask around. There's an Aussie over there that knows every inch of the GTO.

The schematics are still not clear to me what circuits are what when they're only labeled "A" or "C" in a triangle. What I wouldn't give for a military Tech Manual on the GTO.

Thanks for the time and trouble guys!

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 13, 01:27 PM
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Re: Power to coils?

On newer models, power fuses and relays are in the engine compartment.
Remember seeing relay box with the 6AWG red wire going to it?
This wire is the power for both circuits.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 13, 01:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

Right... I'm sure there was a related fuse\relay box under the hood that controlled them. Hell, there were 20 fuse boxes on that thing! But what I can't figure out is HOW.
There's nowhere for anything to plug into the harness to power the top end.
The only thing I can think of without going out there and deciphering, is that some of the unused wiring to C1 of the ECM is what I need.
I'll keep looking... no biggy. Summer isn't over yet.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old Jun 30th, 13, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Power to coils?

Got it... vehicle diagrams to the rescue. Took some digging but there IS a connector unused that feeds the coils\injectors. I mistook it for Air Intake Temp sensor because it's way over at the MAF sensor branch.

Item 12 on the vehicle harness.
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