[alans67rs]

hey guys! Seems people were posting their builds in the pro-touring section here, and i'm looking to do that with my 1967 RS Conv so hopefully i'm in the right place.

So i'm trying to get this car going by Labor day so my dad can finally see it running and driving (bought near 20 years ago, rusted out on a trailer and it hasn't ran the entire time) for the Rod Run show in Ocean Park, WA.

I've got a few things on my mind engine wise, my choices are:
-LM7 327 currently mated to a built 4L60E (both mounted in the car and need wired in)
-BBC 427 that i got from my buddy who's dad used to run in it his 1973 camaro (512 block, used to have a tri-power setup that i wish hadn't been sold off)

Once i finalize my engine choice, my transmission options are:
-4l60e (don't have the specs, but is a new unit with beefier parts)
-the old-school 4 speed that came with the 427 (absent bellhousing)
-T56 pulled from a 94 firebird that is currently wasting away in my 91 z28.

If i go 427 then im tempted to get AFR 265's to bump power and drop weight, but then i worry about breaking parts:
-leave the rear end stock?
-somehow rebuild the stock rear end to reliably handle the BBC?
-If a beefier rear end is recommended, what are my options?


Right now, i am really wanting to go with the 427. I haven't had a BBC powered car, and since this 67 is far from numbers matching i am not worried about going that direction (i plan to beef up the chassis too). The LM7 with EFI should prove to be fun and reliable and going that route i should be closer to getting it running, but i worry about getting hung up on tuning and troubleshooting and mystery computer errors etc etc.

Here's the car, hiding under all the mess. Spring cleaning is due!

 

[alans67rs]

Im slightly fascinated by the 427, here's some numbers i pulled off of it...

Block:
3963512 1969-71 427/454

Heads:

3917215 1967-69 396/427 closed chamber 100.9cc
3931063 1968-70 396/427 closed chamber 100.9cc

Intake:
Edelbrock Performer 2.0

heres a couple pics of the engine

 

[DT]

Going Pro-Touring ??? Sell that 427 BBC and install an LS 3 525 and don't look back.

 

[alans67rs]

Never heard of an LS3 525, but i guess anything is possible!

The 427 may not fit the typical pro-touring combo, but I have it on hand and i'm sure i would be happy with it once it was all dialed in. Still debating though, i can probably get that LM7 up and running for cheaper and quicker and save the 427 for a later day. Also the LM7 was a build my dad worked on, he would be excited to get to see how it turned out.

 

[Sheck44]

So as not to confuse people and stop the 'debate' .. this thread may need to move over to 'build' Projects' ?

Steve

 

[pittpens24]

If I had all those current options, I'd run the 427/T-56/3:73(playing it safe) ratio in the rear or 4:10 if you really wanna have some fun.

 

[pittpens24]

Going Pro-Touring ??? Sell that 427 BBC and install an LS 3 525 and don't look back.

Everyone is going LS - While they do get better gas mileage and are a bit more reliable to an extent, there is nothing quite like the feel and sound of an old school big block period.

 

[The Camaro Guy]

Go with the 427 they are becoming more rare and old school is cool school!!

 

[DT]

I am actually Old School LOL. I have a BBC in my X66 car. IMHO Old School is Old school. Pro Touring with an Old school power plant :noway: I love my BBC don't get me wrong, the car is set up Old School. Keep in mind 10 MPG, occasional oil leaks, hard starts, running hot, are things of the past with an LS. Just my thoughts.

 

[Sheck44]

Go with the 427 they are becoming more rare and old school is cool school!!

Agreed ... LS 427 :wink2:

All kidding aside, if you don't want to re-mortgage the house for some serious LS power a BBC is awesome, my 496 was a ton of fun and you cant go wrong

Cheers
Steve

 

[alans67rs]

So i've decided to run the 427, its heavier but I haven't had a bbc and this seems like a good time to jump in both feet So i took it to the shop today, Dale Maslen Machine in forest grove. Dale is an older guy and says this is the first BBC he's handled in 4 years. He had some stories and pics of his own 427 '69 el camino that he showed me, doesn't have it anymore but it looked sharp and said it launched real hard. He liked the 427's over the 454's due to internal balancing and the quick revs. He pointed out my engine had a steel crank and forged rods. The crank he says looks ground out and doesn't have the cross drilled hole so its probably from a 396. There's plenty of work to get it ready to go and i expect him to find more issues as he dives into it. Pistons are already 30 over, heads will pretty much stay untouched except normal prep work. I wanted him to unshroud the valves but he said there isn't room to work with due to water jackets. I wouldn't mind getting some aluminum heads on there just for weight concerns but unless i can find a smokin deal then I'll stick to what i have so i can splurge in other places.

Transmission-wise I am nixing the t56 idea so i won't have to redo alot of work on the '91 Z28 so i'm left with a 4l60E, a '96 Yukon transmission, or this muncie that came with the engine. Its marked P0A28A (muncie, 1970, january 28th, m20) and the case # reads "392566" (it does not read 3925660 as listed everywhere on the web, so im assuming the zero was added later in production). So that gives me gear ratios of 2.52, 1.88, 1.47, 1.00 if my web-sleuthing skills are on par. I verified it has 10 spline input and 27 spine output shafts. If i go with this one then i have to get bellhousing and peripherals, i have no fork or clutch etc but my shed is a mess so those might still be hiding.

For the other transmissions, i have yet to find out if they will bolt directly to a bbc (i expect to find they probably do). They are also automatics, and i would be afraid of an ill-timed upshift causing a spin out (just ask my brother what happened to his 35th Anniversary TA Convertible, may it RIP!). So i'm leaning towards the muncie right now, and perhaps throwing a GV overdrive behind it for highway speeds.

 

[gphusker]

I'm not sure how much HP you are planning on running but a bone stock 4L60E won't handle a ton without potential issues IMO. You also need to have a controller for that. The Muncie would be fun for an old school approach but a more modern manual would be much better. Just my .02.

 

[ROBS6T8]

I'm not sure how much HP you are planning on running but a bone stock 4L60E won't handle a ton without potential issues IMO. You also need to have a controller for that. The Muncie would be fun for an old school approach but a more modern manual would be much better. Just my .02.

Agree! Putting the TKO in was one of the better things I did. So much nicer to drive/play around with.
Whatever you do... have a plan and stick to it. You'll save so much money in the long run no matter what parts are being used.

 

[gphusker]

Agree! Putting the TKO in was one of the better things I did. So much nicer to drive/play around with.
Whatever you do... have a plan and stick to it. You'll save so much money in the long run no matter what parts are being used.

I think if he were to get a 4L70E he would probably be ok assuming he would be at 500hp or lower. Those have a bunch of hardened parts in them and can take some additional abuse before exploding.

 

[alans67rs]

So I decided to get another t56, picked up a "006" version with the steep first gear. It won't go in the 67 but will be swapped out for the normal t56 that's in my 91 Z28. I'm a big fan of these transmissions since putting one into my 91, im hoping it will survive behind the BBC in the '67.

Also, I was lucky enough to find a local guy with a 12 bolt rear end with the correct width for the 67, positrac and "35 10" (3.5:1) gears, picked it up yesterday. I can't make the #'s out that well on the passenger axle tube but it im guessing its a "BS" stamp. Only downside on that is the perches had been relocated to fit a 2nd gen, I'll need to either use adapter plates or cut n weld it back.

Now I need to get the necessary parts together for the 6 speed to mate up, only have the transmission and a normal bbc flywheel and a pedal assy from a 72 nova.

 

[bigblockragtop]

Since you have to get the parts to hook up the tranny anyway it might be a good time to get a bellhousing that would work with a hydraulic clutch set up. I did that with mine and like it.
P.S. Glad you went with the big block.

 

[alans67rs]

thanks bbr, im excited to get this thing going!

About the bell housing though, I figured I needed a lt1 type t56 so that the bellhousing would match the block. Would it have lined up with an LS t56?

Had I gone LS type though I couldn't have saved myself on the poor purchase of the "006" t56 by swapping it out with the one I already have on the 91z28, I really wasn't prepared when I bought it so that's on me. I just need to avoid super long roadtrips when hunting down car parts lol, its detrimental to making good purchases!

A side story here, the t56 seller was an officer in Monsanto, WA and we got to chatting about our cars. He had sold a 69 Camaro 18 years ago and bought a convertible chevelle to fix up for his wife in its place, but he lost steam on it and the only way she would let him sell it is if he found the original car. He called the guy, who just happened to be getting ready to sell it, and bought it back in the same condition he sold it. The only difference being the new license plate! So after he brought that up, I mentioned how my dad lost his 70 ss Camaro when using it as a down payment for a house, the lady took the car and money and took off to vegas and they couldn't locate her after that (she ended up relocating to California as soon as they won the court decision to get the car back). So the officer offers to help find the car just by running a license plate or vin, and now I have him working with my parents to do just that. Its been 30 years since that car was stolen, im really excited to see if we can locate it!

 

[alans67rs]

Looking for reccomendations on reinforcing the frame on this car. Some options I'm looking at:

-Hotchkis Sport Suspension Chassis Max Systems 81001 (connectors and tunnel brace) ~$600
-Detroit Speed P/N: 010101 (connectors only) ~$200

Anyone have these installed that can let me know what they think? How well do they hold up? I don't want to end up twisting the crap out of this convertible, but don't want to get too crazy reinforcing everything either.

 

[bigblockragtop]

I have the DSE connectors and they work extremely well. I have a Procharged 496 with a standard 6 speed tranny. It has been this way for 6 years and I have yet to twist the car, doors close as they should I do not have a roll bar either. I don't take it to the track or try to pull the wheels. My big thrill is a second to third blast from about 30 mile per hour I roll into the throttle and the car pulls straight and confident.

 

[alans67rs]

Also, now that I know what my gears will be, what should I start looking at for cam specs?

This will be a weekend runner for ****s and giggles and spirited back road driving, and one day my daily driver once my son or maybe my daughter decides they want my current daily driver (70 RS). Also, highway driving will be in the cards, and highway speeds will be in the range of 1600rpms in double overdrive so I need something that will still feel smooth at that low of an rpm. I think I am ok with the intake manifold that I have in that regard.

trans: t56 2.66:1 first gear and 0.5 final gear ratio
rear end: 3.5:1 posi 12 bolt
engine: 427ci + 30 short deck block (might be 60 over by the time the machinist is done, dunno)
heads: iron oval ports (063/215 stamp) (im assuming these haven't been worked over)
intake: Performer 2.0 intake

Need:
carb or Fitech (leaning toward fitech atm)
headers/exhaust

My machinist recommended a 270/280 split (not sure if that was at .5 or not), what do you guys think?

Im not looking to upgrade on the heads (unless someone has a smoking deal on aluminums!), I would rather spend in other places right now ie fitech efi, wheels/tires, front springs etc.