Team Camaro Tech banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys just made a purchase a few days ago.
1967 Camaro RS/SS 350 convertible 4-Speed an 12 Bolt axle. It is a numbers matching motor California car problem I’m having is went to buy spark plugs to local Autozone and they gave me the bigger plugs that don’t fit in the casting but the smaller diameter plug works well haven’t pulled valve covers heades are not double hump???
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Let's see the other rivet on the VIN tag. The one that I can see is not a factory rivet. To me that means the VIN tag has been replaced and would worry me enough to not have purchased the car.
Let's see the other rivet on the VIN tag. The one that I can see is not a factory rivet. To me that means the VIN tag has been replaced and would worry me enough to not have purchased the car.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Let's see the other rivet on the VIN tag. The one that I can see is not a factory rivet. To me that means the VIN tag has been replaced and would worry me enough to not have purchased the car.
After doing a bit more research I have found out that super early cars built in Los plant are like this regarding the engine stamping guru Camaro guy says it is an extremely early production car and being really rare looks like you’d had passed up the deal. Lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
OP

The rivets holding on the VIN plate on the A pillar jam are not factory (Rosette). If this was a out of state plated car that someone wanted to register/plate in CA it would have gone through a VIN check. At the DMV there is a form the inspector uses for this and under rivets it says "Rosette" or "Other". In your case it would be "Other" (read not factory) so a 2nd VIN verification would have been required. The 2nd VIN is under the cowl panel, PS (post#10). You need to remove windshield wipers and then the screws holding this panel on to see it. You "may" be able to read enough of it through the slits in cowl panel but typically you need to remove that panel to see clear enough. I believe there is a 3rd hidden VIN but not sure where (heater suitcase??)

This would verify if the VIN plate attached and the body are the same car...aka "numbers matching" relative to VIN & Body. The block stamping along with the one on rear end housing, PS (facing front of car) also. This would show date which would need to be before date of car on VIN. Typically a few weeks before the build date of car

With this said maybe a body shop just drilled out the VIN plate stock rivets to repaint the car (always a no no) and then just attached it with regular rivets. More scrupulous is to just cut the VIN and surrounding metal and then weld that to a "donor" car body that is not, lets say, a real SS/RS to preserve the Rosette rivets (although those can be cloned also)

In any event to answer your ? about spark plugs is the heads on the motor appear to have been replaced with a newer GM head. Those use the smaller spark plugs. Casting #'s would help identify what kind of heads they are.

The upside down stamping on the block is ?...but that is only applicable to the point of is this a "numbers matching" car. Unfortunately you have signals it is not so further looking on your part is needed.

There is noting wrong with a 1st gen car having a different motor or body that it was built with as long as the seller is accurate about that. Many 1st gens are not "#'s matching".

This link will help decode what #'s you have

CRG Visual ID 1967 Model HyperTable (camaros.org)
On a Camaro numbers only forum there has been many early 1967s that block has been stamped the exact way mine is and I’m almost positive that it is a number matching block
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Due to the fact the VIN tag has been off the body you don't know if you have a number matching car or not.

If the VIN tag does not match the Hidden VINs you have a problem.
I’m pretty sure it is a numbers matching car being I purchased it from the original owner I’m assuming reason being I found a 1970 registration under seat that has same name as title does today. But to clarify my head I will pull the call later this evening and will post photos as well. It has been in a garage since 1983 untouched as the ole man had the engine sent out to rebuild it and found out the it came back with different heads and left it untouched since the day I bought it. And soon will go under a minor resto to respect the orig body panels and bright work that is in 100% rust free condition even the bottom of fenders doors have not a bubble. Geeessshhh
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
My comment just said the block # is in "?" (since the VIN plate raised the flag on "#'s matching")...given it is not normal for it to be upside down, that's all. It may very well be the stock "block" and whatever 411 you discovered about "early" 67's could have this.

The CRG link I sent will assist you in decoding other #'s to support the term "#'s matching"

You do have non original heads so if you want the car to be verified and look like its #'s matching you could buy older heads with a date code before the build date and put those on.

Buying the car from original owner is good support. If he had motor rebuilt at some point, no big deal. The VIN tag being put on with non stock rivets will ALWAYS raise ?'s so to clear that dust up just remove the cowl and take a pic of the body VIN. Ideally it matches and you know for sure

Hope you enjoy your new ride and will find this forum helpful.
Thanks for the help and getting me in to going this deep. As if you didn’t I would have never even give a second look. Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Pete, Post a link to the website/forum you're referring too. I believe Roger is correct in his earlier reply about the "L" being in the wrong position. I'm sure it's possible to be a mistake but I haven't seen that documented anywhere. I also question the motor being returned from a builder with the wrong heads without an explanation as to why. The complete motor may have been switched out without the owner being aware.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Regarding the block partial VIN, it's uncommon but been seen from time to time on LOS 67s. Stamped with 7L or occasionally L7.... It's been mentioned on the CRG site.
Yes it has on really early cars and it’s a good thing to know for future reference. Learning new on the daily here. But am surly getting to the cowl numbers tomorrow and will certainly post pics. As well.
maybe you e haven’t seen as many or have the technical part of searching the history ? Jus saying my 2cents I as well could be wrong but if you e seen at the least 3-5. 1967 Cali built cars as I have in this week alone not to mention what the numbers are for the CRG guys I’m a believer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Never thought I would see the day when CRG would open the door to counterfeit engine ID pad.
I my self have not a knowledge on theese Camaro’s but in this week I e seen posts of at the least 3-5 guys asking questioning and picturing there partial engine pad VIN that’s screwed up as the same as mine to exact almost and not to mention a dual round rivet car ??? If I’ve witnessed this in such a short time imagine what the CRG guys have seen. ??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
@Kurt S please help
@bcm66 here you go along with cowl removed and partial vin stamped as well. Later today if I get the time I’ll crawl under it and get axle and Muncie #s photos as well thanks for Intrest
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Most certainly makes sense but there are other cars that are clear across the country that have been built in the same plant and close build dates that suffer the same issue to exact ??? Me too on the 50/50 but it is what it is the original owners son said that he found some parts in the garage as the ole man passed and I’m hoping it’s heads
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 ·
OP

This is what I can see on the CRG site about your cowl tag...unless I misinterpreted something

O2C-Build: February, 3rd week

S-Day: 19th day of February (date build was “scheduled”, may have been built a few days later)

224- this was the 224th Fisher Body car built on 2/19 at the LOS plant that day (not necessarily the 224th Camaro though on that day. Each day this # starts at 1))

ST 67-12467

ST-Style code

67-model year

12-coupe

4-V8 (could be 327 or 350)

67-Convertible

LOS- Los Angeles plant

995-Body#, not VIN# (Fisher body 995th built)

760-Bucket seat, black

Z-A50 Strato Standard Bucket seat

R-Bolero Red exterior color

1-black stripe (front) with black convertible top

E-Tinted all glass

2LG-4 speed (M20 or 21), console

3L-Rally Sport

4P-L48 or L30/M20. SS 350 with radius rod

5Y-Deluxe Seat Belts

Your engine may not be original and it could have been a L30/M20 car. Very cool if that is true as the "4P' designation says it could either be a L48 (350) or L30 (327/275hp). Ideally the engine # can be verified to see which one it is

When you check rear end #'s look for a rod that is connected to the PS of rear end and goes to front PS leaf spring mount. That would be a radius rod, should be round rod).

Maybe the VIN tag was just removed for paint. The cowl tag looks unmolested and the 2nd VIN under cowl if same as VIN tag that would mean the car is what the cowl says...just what engine is in it now is TBD vs what it came with

If it all checks out it is a bitchen car. I personally would like the L30/M20
I haven’t got home to research the axle and trans codes yet but soon will but am 100% sure of seeing the axle rod under there as was amazed at how it has a factory installed traction device. So does the axle rod make it a M20/M30 ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Where do I look for the axle and transmission #s or castings lol sorry guys. New to this game but if it were a mustang id know exactly where to be didn’t to be here just a good deal what I think got me here. $17.5 for the curious camaro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #64 ·
I truly appreciate everyone chiming in and sharing there opinions greatly do. And yes I have read somewhere that only 350-302s were stamped for 67. Tried to crawl under it tonight and jus couldn’t get in the right position so I’ll move my GT500 out in driveway and park it in garage put it up in the air find castings and whatever else to share with y’all. Tha
Is to all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Partial VIN on a Muncie 4 speed transmission in a 1967 Camaro will usually either be on the passenger side near the rear part of the main case or on top of the main case.

The axle code will be stamped on the front edge of the passenger side axle tube.
Partial VIN on a Muncie 4 speed transmission in a 1967 Camaro will usually either be on the passenger side near the rear part of the main case or on top of the main case.

The axle code will be stamped on the front edge of the passenger side axle tube.
OK Guys Happy thanksgiving to all you and as not most guys but me being a car guy and loosing sleep over this 1967 Camaro RS/SS Convertible L48 Muncie 4speed car I’m in the garage. Lol not to mention and the wife says I’m in love with this thing as well. Here’s what I found and pay attention to the Mystery 7 (aka) L…..
Automotive tire Water Grey Road surface Wood
Tire Automotive tire Tread Road surface Wheel
Grey Font Automotive tire Auto part Monochrome photography
Automotive tire Road surface Asphalt Wood Bumper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Ahhh, a spirited “is it a re-stamp” debate, and now the ALL CAPS responses have come out - feels like I’m back on the Corvette Forum or the NCRS forum (65 Corvette owner here, with all of those numbers) :)

where’s John Hinckley when you need him - God rest his soul, what a great guy.

regarding the engine pad stamp, upside down vin derivative and a “7” used in place of an “L”:

1. broach marks look good on that pad, if block was decked the engine builder went to great lengths to recreate those at the engine rebuild shop. The fact that they painted the damn thing blue, and put incorrect heads on it, should easily rule out some kind of big counterfeit caper IF the “purchased from the original owner” story is true. I have looked at many counterfeit restamp efforts, the broach marks from an original pad are the hardest thing to get right.

2. over on the C2 Corvette forums (where folks have been studying and revealing faked pads for over 25 years now) you will learn that Jimmy Jones working on the assembly line back in the late 60s frequently did things like use letters for numbers, totally screwed up the stamp, banged the fixture twice, etc. (although an upside vin derivative is pretty unusual - but certainly possible). Engine stamping was NOT a quality control item, and they had no idea how much importance future collectors would place on them. They even got the die grinder out and ground out / restamped mistakes on the spot.

3. maybe I missed it but did the OP pull off the valve covers, check the part number / date code and figure what heads are on there? Could also tie that work to a date, and support that whole story.

4. I hope the OP didn’t buy this car for an original, unmolested gem price and only then decide to start confirming things. Engine painted Ford blue? C’mon now . . .

all of this is just my own humble opinion, please don’t take it personally or challenge me to a duel
I’m the op to let you know paid $17.5 for it reason I purchased it for the convertible and the fact that it has all original sheet metal with not 1 rust hole or body/floor Roth anywhere and the exception of a right front fender that was replaced in the late 70s as I was told when asked bye the original owners son. Poped in a set of spark plugs/wires fresh battery fired right up and idled replaced gas tank and it moves on its own power drives down the street all gears working brakes need attention. Cosmetic resto needed paint/interior but I love this car allready
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top