[Fitz69]

Help. Not a master mechanic....brand new wiring and brand new console gauge package......water temp gauge is not working.

I have read where there might be a possibility that the water temperature sensor that goes into the head should have a threaded rod to attach the wire to with a nut, rather than the the style that has a "nail head" to connect a slide on wire connector.

Help!!! Is this my problem?? I currently have the nail head style, whereas the wiring harness came with a round loop connector....leading me to believe I have the wrong sensor.

Thanks

 

[flyingskibiker]

Wrong sensor. You can't use the same sensor one uses with the dash warning lights. Check your usual atermarket vendors for the one you need.

 

[Fitz69]

Found it!!! Thanks

 

[flyingskibiker]

nice!

 

[Fitz69]

Mayday....trouble again! I just installed the new CORRECT sensor, connected everything and...............Nothing. still no temperature reading.

How do I test the new gauge to see if it is okay.....any suggestions??

 

[flyingskibiker]

Bleh... Well, you'll have to do some experimenting then. Are you sure there is a good connection all the way from the sendor connector to the back of the gauge (no opens or shorts)? My brand new harnesses from AAW had two issues that needed to be fixed (not temp gauge related)...

The higher the temp., the lower the resistance from the sendor. With another person, you could short the sendor lead to ground to see if it will peg the gauge needle. Though, putting some resistor in there would keep things a little more on the tame side. Say...100 ohms.

Here is something I saved from another thread. It has all the values of resistance at various temps for three different brands of sendors. Your could also heat yours up in some water on the stove and see if the resistance is close to the listings...

quote: Gauge normally reads 1 tick above 1/4 scale with the engine operating around 180 degrees, thats just how the originals work.

Heres some resistance values for three senders 6 dollar TU5 Wells sender from Autozone, 25 dollar "correctly calibrated" Lectric Limited model 01513321, and an original GM 1513321 sender (for a Pontiac Firebird - one with the slide on connector- Camaros use a 1513462 with a screw on lug).

80 degrees: Wells at 650 ohms, LL at 573 ohms, GM at 549
90 degrees: Wells at 526 ohms, LL at 445 ohms, GM at 524
100 degrees: Wells at 429 ohms, LL at 365 ohms, GM at 409
110 degrees: Wells at 328 ohms, LL at 266 ohms, GM at 365
120 degrees: Wells at 283 ohms, LL at 227 ohms, GM at 323
130 degrees: Wells at 250 ohms, LL at 200 ohms, GM at 272
140 degrees: Wells at 216 ohms, LL at 170 ohms, GM at 227
150 degrees: Wells at 198 ohms, LL at 155 ohms, GM at 195
160 degrees: Wells at 173 ohms, LL at 133 ohms, GM at 175
170 degrees: Wells at 157 ohms, LL at 119 ohms, GM at 157
180 degrees: Wells at 135 ohms, LL at 101 ohms, GM at 140
190 degrees: Wells at 120 ohms, LL at 89 ohms, GM at 125
200 degrees: Wells at 109 ohms, LL at 79 ohms, GM at 109
212 degrees: Wells at 104 ohms, LL at 75 ohms, GM at 102

If you have a gauge with an external resistor you can change it from the stock 86 ihm resistor to a 91 ohm resistor and that will move the gauge up to 1 tick below half, at 180 degrees. I've done that, I use a potentiometer with two short leads on it, I adjust it to what i want the gauge to read and then lock it down in a ball of electrical tape so it can't change. If your gauge has the resistor built into it, then you have to live with it reading low, or get a sender that has a lower resistance at each of the temps above. As you can see the LL sender had a lower resistance throughout the range of the instrument for any given temperature so the needle would be higher on the gauge for the same temperature. :unquote

 

[flyingskibiker]

Oh, and sometimes people put on a bunch of teflon tape and the sensor can't get a good ground...

 

[Papa]

Oh, and sometimes people put on a bunch of teflon tape and the sensor can't get a good ground...

Dam i also have the same problem... but i purchassed the sender from Ricks and i did purchase the one thats suited to my camaro and yes did have the small threaded lug... I did use teflon... but from looking at the threads they are tappered so i dont think i need the teflon and thats what may be stopping it from working.
BTW: my camaro came with gauge pack (factory)

I will also do the test you have mentioned with a 100ohm

 

[Mark C]

And sometimes people forget to ground the two gauge backing plates together with a short jumper, and then to ground with the single ground lead provided in the harness.

 

[Papa]

And sometimes people forget to ground the two gauge backing plates together with a short jumper, and then to ground with the single ground lead provided in the harness.

Guys

I did the 100ohm Test from the Green cable thats connected to the sender unit and it worked fine the Temp gauge moved so thats all good. the problem i think lies in the sender unit i purchassed it from Ricks and i did use teflon tape, im thinking it could be the problem or it may be the wrong type.

does anybody know the correct sender unit I should be using, its a 69 RS camaro with the gauge package factory installed.

 

[69-Pace]

You can test the sender by removing the sender from the block, then grounding the sender, hooking the lead up to the gauge, then stick the end of the sender into a pot of boiling water. Be careful etc as it is boiling water after all.

The gauge should peg and then decrease as the boiling water cools down. If this works then the Teflon is preventing the sender from grounding on the block. If it doesn't work double check your ground. If that still doesn't work check the ohms off the sender. If it is a idiot light switch it will only have two states ground and ungrounded. The grounded state lights the idiot light. You can test that with the multi-meter.

 

[Papa]

Hi Ok

will do that test... i dont think we have an idiot light installed the gauge is on the centre console and from what i know I dont have it.

 

[69-Pace]

O-kay. BTW you don't need the idiot light to test to see if the sender is a gauge sender or a idiot light switch. Just a meter or test light or power probe tool will do.

The idiot light switch version will be just that - a switch with only two states on, grounded and off ungrounded. All you need to do is test in air unheated by the boiling water if it is off - ungrounded - can't pass voltage - with meter or test light probe. Then dump in the boiling water it goes grounded and lights the probe or kicks the meter.

The gauge sender version will have degrees of resistance in ohms as it goes through a range of possible temperature readouts. The temps and ohms are posted in this thread above by CB.

Happy testing. Should know in a short period of time what you have for a sender and if it is calibrated correctly.

 

[Mark C]

You may not be able to get a temperature switch to close in boiling water. I would suspect the switch wont close until the engine reaches around 235 degrees or higher. Might take a judisciaous application of a propane torch flame to the base to get the temp high enough to close the switch.

 

[prostreet69camaro]

He has a guage, not a idiot light. So water temperature will cause the guage to move. If he has hot water the guage will move.

Either boil/heat some water and put sending unit in water to see if the guage will move or put some water in a metal pan and heat with a propane torch. Do you have a temperaure meter / guage to compare with for the console guage.

 

[Mark C]

He has a guage, not a idiot light. So water temperature will cause the guage to move. If he has hot water the guage will move.



Either boil/heat some water and put sending unit in water to see if the guage will move or put some water in a metal pan and heat with a propane torch. Do you have a temperaure meter / guage to compare with for the console guage.

Didn't say he did, was just commenting on the response No. 13 above that said if you drop a switch into boiling water it would turn on the idiot light on the dash. It won't.

You don't even need to remove the sender/switch from the head. With an ohm meter set on the 2K ohm scale, put one lead on the center pin, put the other on the outer metal body of the sender, if there is any reistance at all then you have a sender, if there is infinite resistance (open circuit) you have a switch. Assuming you have a sender (not a switch) move the second lead (the one on the body of the sender) to a good ground point on the block, if the reading remains the same as the first reading, your porblem isn't with the sender, its with the wiring or the gauge.

Next step is to touch the green lead wire to ground on the block with the key on, the needle should peg high, and then return to cold when you remove the lead from the ground.

 

[Boucher421]

My water temp gauge was pegged way below 'cold' when I'd turn the key, even though I followed the American autowire classic update kit instructions. I switched the pink (12v) and green (water temp sender) wires and now it works perfect.

 

[Rarerat]

Bleh... Well, you'll have to do some experimenting then. Are you sure there is a good connection all the way from the sendor connector to the back of the gauge (no opens or shorts)? My brand new harnesses from AAW had two issues that needed to be fixed (not temp gauge related)...

The higher the temp., the lower the resistance from the sendor. With another person, you could short the sendor lead to ground to see if it will peg the gauge needle. Though, putting some resistor in there would keep things a little more on the tame side. Say...100 ohms.

Here is something I saved from another thread. It has all the values of resistance at various temps for three different brands of sendors. Your could also heat yours up in some water on the stove and see if the resistance is close to the listings...

quote: Gauge normally reads 1 tick above 1/4 scale with the engine operating around 180 degrees, thats just how the originals work.

Heres some resistance values for three senders 6 dollar TU5 Wells sender from Autozone, 25 dollar "correctly calibrated" Lectric Limited model 01513321, and an original GM 1513321 sender (for a Pontiac Firebird - one with the slide on connector- Camaros use a 1513462 with a screw on lug).

80 degrees: Wells at 650 ohms, LL at 573 ohms, GM at 549
90 degrees: Wells at 526 ohms, LL at 445 ohms, GM at 524
100 degrees: Wells at 429 ohms, LL at 365 ohms, GM at 409
110 degrees: Wells at 328 ohms, LL at 266 ohms, GM at 365
120 degrees: Wells at 283 ohms, LL at 227 ohms, GM at 323
130 degrees: Wells at 250 ohms, LL at 200 ohms, GM at 272
140 degrees: Wells at 216 ohms, LL at 170 ohms, GM at 227
150 degrees: Wells at 198 ohms, LL at 155 ohms, GM at 195
160 degrees: Wells at 173 ohms, LL at 133 ohms, GM at 175
170 degrees: Wells at 157 ohms, LL at 119 ohms, GM at 157
180 degrees: Wells at 135 ohms, LL at 101 ohms, GM at 140
190 degrees: Wells at 120 ohms, LL at 89 ohms, GM at 125
200 degrees: Wells at 109 ohms, LL at 79 ohms, GM at 109
212 degrees: Wells at 104 ohms, LL at 75 ohms, GM at 102

If you have a gauge with an external resistor you can change it from the stock 86 ihm resistor to a 91 ohm resistor and that will move the gauge up to 1 tick below half, at 180 degrees. I've done that, I use a potentiometer with two short leads on it, I adjust it to what i want the gauge to read and then lock it down in a ball of electrical tape so it can't change. If your gauge has the resistor built into it, then you have to live with it reading low, or get a sender that has a lower resistance at each of the temps above. As you can see the LL sender had a lower resistance throughout the range of the instrument for any given temperature so the needle would be higher on the gauge for the same temperature. :unquote

I know this an old thread but I am having the same issue, can you tell me where you found the 91 ohm resistor?
Thank you in advance,
Nick

 

[flyingskibiker]

The resistor is on the back of the original gauge in the console. They can be purchased at a few of the regular Camaro parts vendors. It's been awhile since I looked through the catalogs. But I think it was Year One and/or Classic Industries?

 

[69-Pace]

The resistor is on the back of the original gauge in the console. They can be purchased at a few of the regular Camaro parts vendors. It's been awhile since I looked through the catalogs. But I think it was Year One and/or Classic Industries?

Nick - Almost everyone carries the ceramic based replacements for the rear of the gauge.

This is a very old thread but if anyone is following the testing loop, read the rest understanding the op at one point didn't know if the sender was correct for gauges or was it for an idiot light and several posts kept confusing that situation. He needed a test to see if it was meant for an idiot light vehicle. That is my post 11.